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Old 05-26-2012, 11:54 AM   #1
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Live 1/2 valuetowning myself?

Live 1/2 at turning stone casino. I'm viewed as super aggro but at the same time the entire table respects my game. Villain is an old man on the btn who has made some spazzy position raises with random j6s hands(not often but has) and floats with kq on low unconnected boards. Am I stretching too thin here vs an old man who is typically tight?

mp2 limps, btn makes it 13, I call in the sb with j9ss limper calls. Flop comes 9 2 2 rainbow. I donk 22, limper calls btn calls. I had intentions of shutting down here but the turn brought the J which also completed the rainbow. I fired 50 mp2 folds and btn thinks and calls. River was an 8 and I thought for a minute and decided to put him all in for $130 ( I had him covered ). Thoughts?
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Old 05-26-2012, 12:36 PM   #2
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Re: Live 1/2 valuetowning myself?

Stacks needed to determine pre, but I don't like the call unless you are super-deep with at least one of the Vs. Speculative hand OOP = bad to call 6.5BBs

Donk on flop is fine, people tend to be unbelievers, so paired board bets get more calls than usual.

Turn is fine, since most flats are one pair hands, anyone with a 2 would usually raise. OM has 9x or PP the majority of the time here. Even is he flatted flop with a 2, he'd prob raise it here.

River... I don't know. We're too shallow to b/f, and his calling range OTR prob crushes us. His flatting twice range has a lot of 2-pair hands, but he's prob not calling river unless he can beat Js and 2s. Given your image, you may look FOS here and get looked up by 9x, TT, etc., but I doubt it. I'd prob c/c river, tbh, since OM will usually check back their non-nut SDV here, and I'd rather keep this pot somewhat under control. I know that sounds weak, but meh.
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Old 05-26-2012, 01:13 PM   #3
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Re: Live 1/2 valuetowning myself?

Yea, I know pre is questionable to say the least but I decided to play it knowing my skill edge is enormous in this game. I definitely fold it a good % of the time. I should have also noted a 2 is never in the limpers range(very tight older guy) unless it was 22 and a 2 is is in the btns range almost never as well. Stacks were very awkward at the river because like you said, way to shallow to bet fold its a little under a pot sized bet remaining. Because of my aggression, old men love to get stubborn against me and call with marginal hands so I decided to go for full value knowing that there will definitely be a % of the time where he has like QQ, KK, AA.
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Old 05-26-2012, 01:15 PM   #4
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Re: Live 1/2 valuetowning myself?

I know you prolly think your awesome but go back to basics: Position etc. This hand stops PF
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Old 05-26-2012, 01:25 PM   #5
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Re: Live 1/2 valuetowning myself?

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Originally Posted by Richard Hurtz View Post
I know you prolly think your awesome but go back to basics: Position etc. This hand stops PF
Yeah, muck pre. Kind of got worse and worse from there...
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Old 05-26-2012, 02:03 PM   #6
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I'm usually done on a paired board when there is a second call on the flop. I mean, what hand does the button think MP has to over call unless they are really bad. I see why you might think the jack improves your hand, but if the villain is willing to continue on the turn I'm fairly certain we are looking at a deuce or 99 or JJ (which should never be raising in this hand).

I think you're better off checking/calling a small bet on the river or check/folding to a shove/ big bet against this type of player.
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Old 05-26-2012, 02:51 PM   #7
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Re: Live 1/2 valuetowning myself?

I'm guessing you lost to a strangely played overpair? Probably QQ...

I don't really mind the play on the flop. Turn doesn't really change our handstrength, although we now beat all 9x hands. We still lose to a boat or an overpair.

I think PF is fine, presuming you're fairly deep (over 100BBs) and have a significant skill edge over your opponents. I pretty much always defend J9ss if the hand is multiway. Only folding to a short stack or a very tough opponent.
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Old 05-26-2012, 04:45 PM   #8
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Re: Live 1/2 valuetowning myself?

I love c/c here, you already said this guy floats you with air, this is not a good spot to value bet as I don't think you get paid often or at all. Who cares if he has better, you are going to pay him anyways by value-owning yourself or c/c.

By checking, precisely because you said this villain is capable of floating with nothing, you allow him to bluff himself right into +EV monies for you.

Check/call ftw.
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Old 05-26-2012, 05:09 PM   #9
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Re: Live 1/2 valuetowning myself?

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Originally Posted by trymyk View Post
Yea, I know pre is questionable to say the least but I decided to play it knowing my skill edge is enormous in this game.
not enormous enough.
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Old 05-26-2012, 08:18 PM   #10
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Re: Live 1/2 valuetowning myself?

Yea well I did run into QQ he took a while before he called and said that he thinks I'm bluffing a 2 haha. I think check call is better than a shove. Thanks for the constructive responses
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Old 05-27-2012, 05:16 AM   #11
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Re: Live 1/2 valuetowning myself?

Next time have a deuce.
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Old 05-27-2012, 06:37 AM   #12
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Re: Live 1/2 valuetowning myself?

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not enormous enough.
lol
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Old 05-27-2012, 08:45 PM   #13
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Re: Live 1/2 valuetowning myself?

Grunch: 3bet preflop
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Old 05-28-2012, 03:30 AM   #14
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Re: Live 1/2 valuetowning myself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by trymyk View Post
Live 1/2 at turning stone casino. I'm viewed as super aggro but at the same time the entire table respects my game. Villain is an old man on the btn who has made some spazzy position raises with random j6s hands(not often but has) and floats with kq on low unconnected boards. Am I stretching too thin here vs an old man who is typically tight?

mp2 limps, btn makes it 13, I call in the sb with j9ss limper calls. Flop comes 9 2 2 rainbow. I donk 22, limper calls btn calls. I had intentions of shutting down here but the turn brought the J which also completed the rainbow. I fired 50 mp2 folds and btn thinks and calls. River was an 8 and I thought for a minute and decided to put him all in for $130 ( I had him covered ). Thoughts?
either 3b or fold preflop. calling is the worst option.
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