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| Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies. |
05-25-2012, 01:37 PM
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#1
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centurion
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 168
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Line check 1/2, with semi-bluff turn and river decision
I just wanted to make sure I played my hand correctly and see if my sizing was correct on each of the streets.
V1: Very passive, calls a lot pre-flop, not opening many hands, he has been getting very lucky and has ran his initial $200 to about 550-600. We have been playing at the same time for about three or so hours now.
V2 (BB): Loose passive, middle aged man.
Hero: Viewed by the table as TAG. Not shown any bluffs, everything that has gone to showdown, I show premiums. $220.
Preflop: V1 limps, Hero (B) A  9  , raise to 10, this was my standard open for the entire game. V2 calls, V1 calls.
Pot(30)
Flop: 9xJ  7x
V1 bets 12, Hero calls, BB/V2 folds.
Pot(54)
Turn: 10
V1 Bets 15, Hero raises to 50. V1 tanks for a bit and then calls.
Pot(154)
River: 5x
V1 checks pretty weak, Hero??
V1 has been leading with pairs, and some draws, while playing with him. Should I be shoving the river or can I check back and see that my 9 is good. I know V1 is looking weak, but I believe I have some showdown value. So what is your river play?
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05-25-2012, 01:46 PM
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#2
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: beantown
Posts: 5,150
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Re: Line check 1/2, with semi-bluff turn and river decision
He's never folding an 8. Ship if you think his range has enough combos of pr+draw that bricked on river.
I' d prolly flat turn intending to also bluff some straight completing rivers if villain shows weakness (which should be easy since I would expect the villains you described to play very far up in those spots)
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05-25-2012, 01:58 PM
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#3
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Oberbiergenießer
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In warehouse playing against ZZ Top
Posts: 4,924
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Re: Line check 1/2, with semi-bluff turn and river decision
Flop c-bet is way too small. Bet at least 1/2 pot, or don't bet.
Turn raise seems spewy to me. He's passive and c/c flop donk turn. To me that only says draw trying to set price of big hand. Since you have the nut FD, I'd just flat it here, as we may make a mint on a flush-over-flush, and we may have to fold a lot of equity if he re-raises over us.
If you had air, I might like the shove, but with your SDV here, I prob check back.
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05-25-2012, 02:01 PM
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#4
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grinder
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Far, far away
Posts: 439
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Re: Line check 1/2, with semi-bluff turn and river decision
He has JT almost always on this spot. Raise the turn to 60 and bomb river if he's not the type of guy who will call just cuz he's got 2-pair
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05-25-2012, 02:23 PM
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#5
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centurion
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 168
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Re: Line check 1/2, with semi-bluff turn and river decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Flop c-bet is way too small. Bet at least 1/2 pot, or don't bet.
Turn raise seems spewy to me. He's passive and c/c flop donk turn. To me that only says draw trying to set price of big hand. Since you have the nut FD, I'd just flat it here, as we may make a mint on a flush-over-flush, and we may have to fold a lot of equity if he re-raises over us.
If you had air, I might like the shove, but with your SDV here, I prob check back.
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I didn't cbet, V1 donks. If I cbet, I would make it about 15-16. I decided to raise the turn to try and take control of the hand and set up a river shove whether there was a heart or not.
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05-25-2012, 02:24 PM
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#6
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journeyman
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 317
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Re: Line check 1/2, with semi-bluff turn and river decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Flop c-bet is way too small. Bet at least 1/2 pot, or don't bet.
Turn raise seems spewy to me. He's passive and c/c flop donk turn. To me that only says draw trying to set price of big hand. Since you have the nut FD, I'd just flat it here, as we may make a mint on a flush-over-flush, and we may have to fold a lot of equity if he re-raises over us.
If you had air, I might like the shove, but with your SDV here, I prob check back.
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The hero didn't c-bet the flop, the villain donked into him OTF and OTT.
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05-25-2012, 02:35 PM
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#7
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enthusiast
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 68
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Re: Line check 1/2, with semi-bluff turn and river decision
i would put him on some kind of QJ, TJ type of hand. If you think he is the type, you didn't say, that would fold top pair decent kicker then by all means bet this hand as you are most likely behind his whole range. I don't know how much show down value your hand actually has due to that. if i am doing the math right you have around 150 behind to a 154 pot. I might try and make something looking more like a value bet and put out 80 or so. enough to get him off a hand and not make it look like i WANT him to fold.
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05-25-2012, 02:45 PM
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#8
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journeyman
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 317
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Re: Line check 1/2, with semi-bluff turn and river decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by vigilanteez
I just wanted to make sure I played my hand correctly and see if my sizing was correct on each of the streets.
V1: Very passive, calls a lot pre-flop, not opening many hands, he has been getting very lucky and has ran his initial $200 to about 550-600. We have been playing at the same time for about three or so hours now.
V2 (BB): Loose passive, middle aged man.
Hero: Viewed by the table as TAG. Not shown any bluffs, everything that has gone to showdown, I show premiums. $220.
Preflop: V1 limps, Hero (B) A  9  , raise to 10, this was my standard open for the entire game. V2 calls, V1 calls.
Pot(30)
Flop: 9xJ  7x
V1 bets 12, Hero calls, BB/V2 folds.
Pot(54)
Turn: 10
V1 Bets 15, Hero raises to 50. V1 tanks for a bit and then calls.
Pot(154)
River: 5x
V1 checks pretty weak, Hero??
V1 has been leading with pairs, and some draws, while playing with him. Should I be shoving the river or can I check back and see that my 9 is good. I know V1 is looking weak, but I believe I have some showdown value. So what is your river play?
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Opening pre with this hand is perfect, although I'd normally make it $12-$14 in a $1/$2, but if that's your standard open, theres nothing wrong with that.
When V1 donks $10 OTF, his range is usually capped at K-Jo and more likely includes any Jx, 9x, pair + SD, and sometimes just a SD like A-8 (although since hes loose-passive, the last one might be discounted). Either way, the best option is to call the $10 flop bet.
Even though the turn brought you a FD, I think its best to just call the turn bet. Looking at his flop range, V1 usually has:
Jx, in which case you might be able to barrel him off his hand by the river, but it will always take at least two barrels, and he still might call a river shove with something like K-J if hes a true loose-passive
9x, which you already have crushed and won't get any more value anyways
A straight, which might shove and now price you out of drawing to your flush, although by his bet sizing this doesn't look too likely
Or a pair + SD that turned two pair, which will likely tank-call a river shove even on a board showing 4 to a straight
As played, OTR you have SD against Q-9, K-9, and Q-7s (although a 7 probably doesnt donk flop too often since hes a loose-passive), so you have SD value against a pretty small range. The only problem I have with firing a second barrel is that I feel V1 will call with a large % of his range. If you do bet the river, you have to shove so that random Jxs actually have a decision; otherwise youll get called by everything that beats you if you bet some smaller amount like $75.
I might be overestimating this loose passives river calling range. If you think this player will fold two pair to a shove, then I'd shove, but if you think he'll call with two pair and occasionally even K-J, then I'm checking back and regretting my turn raise.
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05-25-2012, 03:37 PM
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#9
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 11,632
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Re: Line check 1/2, with semi-bluff turn and river decision
I'd consider making my standard open larger. Gives us a better overall chance of gettings things HU and makes more money when we cbet and take it on the flop, plus more immediate value in our actual value hands. Otherwise, after one limper I'm always raising any playable hand in LP.
I'm really undecided with flop. We have horrible RIO if a A/9 hits the turn and villain still has us beat. The board itself isn't drawy, so it seems unlikely villian is betting a draw (gutshot?) into two opponents. Plus we still have the BB to act behind us. All we've really got going for us is the running flush draw and the fact that we're getting good pot odds on the flop. This may be on the weak side, but against an ABC passive player, I just muck the flop and move on.
Any idea what a weak turn bet means? Sometimes it means "I have a weak hand". Sometimes it means "I have a monster and I don't want you to fold". We really shouldn't have an 8 in our hands, but villain probably doesn't know that. We're getting great odds to chase our flush, I take them and simply call.
Even though it seems unlikely that our 9x will win, it's still showdownable. Once he calls our turn bluff, I think he's just calling our river bluff too often. I check behind.
GcluelessNLnoobG
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05-25-2012, 04:13 PM
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#10
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Oberbiergenießer
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In warehouse playing against ZZ Top
Posts: 4,924
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Re: Line check 1/2, with semi-bluff turn and river decision
Quote:
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I didn't cbet, V1 donks. If I cbet, I would make it about 15-16.
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My bad, I misread action. A passive player making small bet might be the right one to float, but I don't think I follow through with a shove if called OTT. What do we think he lays down OTR that we beat?
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05-25-2012, 04:35 PM
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#11
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centurion
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 168
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Re: Line check 1/2, with semi-bluff turn and river decision
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
What do we think he lays down OTR that we beat?
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I think by shoving, you are trying to get him to fold all his weak jacks, he might call with KJ, and two pair, but those could fold to due to a possible straight on the board.
In the hand, I shoved because I thought if I checked back, he was winning the hand a majority of the time. I guess I made the mistake in raising the turn.
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05-25-2012, 04:52 PM
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#12
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Oberbiergenießer
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In warehouse playing against ZZ Top
Posts: 4,924
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Re: Line check 1/2, with semi-bluff turn and river decision
My number 1 rule of not being a spew-monkey: "Don't try to get weak players off top pair." I can't tell you how many times I've heard "you have <hand that beats TP> don't you? sigh... I call."
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05-25-2012, 09:46 PM
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#13
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journeyman
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 224
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Re: Line check 1/2, with semi-bluff turn and river decision
grunch
Flop-passive villain will probably only donk with a minimum of pair+GS such as 87. I would probably just fold the flop.
turn-I wouldn't raise here. That is a good card for his range and completed a lot of straight draws. There's not much that he's folding.
as played, I would just give up. I doubt you can get this type of villain to fold sets, 2 pair or even TP
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05-25-2012, 10:45 PM
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#14
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journeyman
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bradenton Florida
Posts: 241
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Re: Line check 1/2, with semi-bluff turn and river decision
If you're planing on staying in this hand with your 9 after his flop bet (which is not what I would do) than you need to take control of the hand by raising the flop pot size, and drive out the weak J and 9. On the turn if he calls your flop raise you need to semi-bluff to get him off the hand. Probably pot sized bet.
As played I think he has a weak J and you're behind at the river. So you either bet significantly and drive him out or lose.
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05-25-2012, 11:10 PM
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#15
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: beantown
Posts: 5,150
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Re: Line check 1/2, with semi-bluff turn and river decision
Really??? We have ZERO "showdown value" here, but I think players at this level will not fold any 2pr here. They sure as hell are not folding a set or 8x.
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