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KK spot v fish - 2/5 KK spot v fish - 2/5

08-16-2017 , 04:08 AM
Hero $1000 - Running card dead, and unlucky in a spot with KK vs AK where I get in $200 pre vs AK and he flops a flush draw and gets there AI on the flop.

Hero gets KK again vs drunk whale.

This guy just stacked another players KK with AJ. JxxxJ for like a $3000 pot. All in on the flop.

Villian opens UTG to $50 which is just insane. Hero has KK in SB.

I didn't want to 3bet and just flat called - Thoughts???

$100 pot

T72
He leads $75
Call

A turn
Check
Check

A river
$150
Call

Thoughts???

I don't really like my line - I kinda like a raise on the flop
KK spot v fish - 2/5 Quote
08-16-2017 , 05:44 AM
Drunk whales don't like folding. You make money off of them by value betting your strong hands. Don't let him see a cheap flop, that's the opposite of what you want. Being OOP makes this mistake even worse as postflop will be much harder to play. There's no need to disguise your hand or play tricky. You're not trying to slowplay like you're trying to squeeze thin value out of a nit on a later street. Reraise preflop. I'd make it 180 which, if called, gives me a very favorable SPR to commit my whole stack on any flop without an ace. (An ace flop would require more knowledge about his tendencies and reads of his actions.) Forget about how badly you've been running or how often KK has been cracked recently, you have pocket kings against a whale, get your stack in the middle. If he folds, that's a free 50 bucks plus the blinds, also a fine result. I'm never scared to get no "action" by reraising my kings, because even if they do find a fold I still get some value from their dead money with absolutely no risk. And this isn't the type of player who is likely to fold anyway. If he 4bet shoves on you I'm happily calling. If he shows up with aces, so be it, that's poker, and even then you still have 20% equity. If he's really a "drunk whale" like you say, his 4bet shove range is much wider than aces. BTW there is nothing "insane" about his 10x preflop raise, he is just gambling. That's what whales do. It's only insane compared to what you are used to playing. When you're playing against a gambly whale, get ready for a wild ride for stacks.

As played, on the flop you must bet for value, and to protect your hand. I'd donk out 75. You are still overwhelmingly likely to have the best hand. Bet.

As played, he did your betting for you. C/r him. Go 3x if you think he might call, or minraise if you think a bigger bet might lose him. Unfortunately because you didn't raise preflop he has correct implied odds to have hit a set to get your stack. If he 3bets you might be in trouble. But this player type is also likely to commit with hands like AT, JJ, QQ, or 98, so you can't afford to back down, even if you happen to be beat.

As played, on the turn an ace comes. It's not as likely as usual to have hit this wide-range player. I would bet small for value, even though it reveals my hand strength since my hand just looks like I hit hit my ace. That's fine, I have no need to disguise my hand against gamblers and he is more likely than average to pay off. If he raises, I will most likely be giving up since he should be assuming I have the ace and would not expect me to fold it, although if he's shown a tendency to make wild raises as bluffs with things like gutshots then I would consider calling down.

As played, you check, and he checks behind. This player type is unlikely to get tricky as soon as he hits his ace overcard, he would be more likely to continue betting and getting value from you. It's very likely that this card scares him, making his most likely holdings Tx or some middlish PP. When he checks, I'm taking it for what it looks like, weakness, and assuming that I have the best hand. You have shown no aggression so far, and all that "work" to disguise your hand is worthless now that the scare card ace has come and he will just think you have that anyway. He will be able to play as close as perfectly against you as he is able, a bad situation.

The river pairs the ace, making it even less likely that he has one. You bet 150. This is a fine play, you are almost certain to have the best hand here and he will not want to believe you have an ace (or know that you have kings), so it's likely to be an effective value bet. But if he raises, it's a tough spot, hopefully your knowledge of his bluffing tendencies will help you decide between a call and a fold in that situation. The river play is good, but I would not have gotten myself into this situation due to different play on earlier streets.
KK spot v fish - 2/5 Quote
08-16-2017 , 05:56 AM
I mean, if your not 3!ing this pre then I just don't know how to help, this is the most obvious fist pump 3! Pre your ever likely to find, just try and hide your delight as you do it.....
After that this hand is trivial, bet, gii spot an all but a high boards, as played vs a particular type of reg if you have a nitty image then your line is decent, vs a drunk whale it's just a crazy loss of value.
KK spot v fish - 2/5 Quote
08-16-2017 , 05:57 AM
Raise big preflop because the drunkards and the big fat whales don't come to the poker club to fold. They all have the tendency on calling. So, 3! pre very big like $300+ so that you can call a shove or shove ourselves OTF. I men ..man.., are we even thinking of not playing KK against those type of villains?

I just wrote a post what happen with me the other day with my KK vs. fish J6s where I push $250 pre and he called, you know.. man, he called,... ..., horrific ...haha..., (LOL) .. I got nightmares last nigh and couldn't fall asleep, I had to take two Xanax pills to knock me out ... haha...haha! ... LOL
KK spot v fish - 2/5 Quote
08-16-2017 , 06:17 AM
raise hard pre, then just extract as much as possible on every street from said whale, thats why you are there man
KK spot v fish - 2/5 Quote
08-16-2017 , 06:34 AM
He turned up with TQo - I mean if I 3bet pre, he would of folded it and my hand looks face up since I have been pretty card dead and haven't 3bet yet.

Think he would of called pre if I made it $150??
KK spot v fish - 2/5 Quote
08-16-2017 , 06:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djevans
He turned up with TQo - I mean if I 3bet pre, he would of folded it and my hand looks face up since I have been pretty card dead and haven't 3bet yet.

Think he would of called pre if I made it $150??
Doubt a drunk whale who opens 10x utg is going to fold QTo facing a 3b.

You can make it like $140.
KK spot v fish - 2/5 Quote
08-16-2017 , 06:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djevans
He turned up with TQo - I mean if I 3bet pre, he would of folded it and my hand looks face up since I have been pretty card dead and haven't 3bet yet.

Think he would of called pre if I made it $150??
hahaha..., Oh, yeh! .., You like that one? ..., Ummmm... Me too ..man.
Yes, got to raise pre much more and bet flop and all streets. If drunk raises pre he will call almost any 3! or 4! pre and we are not gonna go away anywhere with our KK. Are we? ..,So, let's upload chips in the middle and download them back into our stacks at the showdown, you know ..., haha!
KK spot v fish - 2/5 Quote
08-16-2017 , 07:09 AM
3b pre, $150ish. Don't make the mistake of thinking that because you wouldn't call that he wouldn't either. If he's 10x raising QTo I doubt he's folding it to a 3b. As played value bet river v any random piece of the board he might have.

Otr pot is 250 as played, I think value bet river vs any random piece of the board he might have. $150 seems good
KK spot v fish - 2/5 Quote
08-16-2017 , 03:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djevans
He turned up with TQo - I mean if I 3bet pre, he would of folded it and my hand looks face up since I have been pretty card dead and haven't 3bet yet.

Think he would of called pre if I made it $150??
This player type is here to gamble on his hands, not read yours. Instead of trying to figure out what you are likely to have, he is instead imagining what he hopes you have. He doesn't care that you've been card dead and have never 3bet yet, he's not even paying attention to that. Forget about disguising your hand against this player type, play it straightforward and turn it "face up," as you say. He won't play correctly against it. I really doubt he would fold to a 3bet pre, if you're sure about this then he is not really a "drunk whale." QTo looks like a strong hand to this type of player and he will be unable to resist the urge to call and see if he hits the flop. But even if he does fold, as I explained before, you win 50 + blinds with no risk and should be satisfied with that result.
KK spot v fish - 2/5 Quote
08-16-2017 , 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by djevans
Think he would of called pre if I made it $150??
Min-raises are generally under-utilized in poker IMO.

I mean, I'm definitely not arguing against a bigger 3bet here, but a min-raise is better than flatting and nobody folds to a min-raise, least of all the drunk whale.
KK spot v fish - 2/5 Quote

      
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