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KK facing continued action on paired turn 2/5 KK facing continued action on paired turn 2/5

10-25-2014 , 12:50 AM
In a previous hand, V called my 3 bet pre with 45s and binked it on 525K6 runout against my AK for 100 bb.

100bb effective.
In this particular hand, UTG blind raises to 15.
V calls 15.
I raise to 45 in MP with KK.
All folds to V who calls.

100
T97 rainbow.
V donk bets 40.
I raise to 80.
V calls.

270
Td.
V leads out 125.

What would you do?
KK facing continued action on paired turn 2/5 Quote
10-25-2014 , 12:57 AM
If V is calling with hands like 54s we can be 3betting for value a lot bigger than 3x here.
Esp given that someone else called in between, and the fact that it's a blind raise.
I would 3bet to $60 - $70 pre flop.

Flop raise here is horrible.
We accomplish nothing.
If we think that his range is weak, and he won't call a raise we can consider flatting. But if we think that he can call a raise, then we can can raise larger for value. When he donks $40 generally I would either flat or raise here to $150 and in this case it's an easy raise.

On the turn, this is one of the worse turn cards. I guess that I'd just fold. Imo we put our self in a bad spot with all of our previous decisions, and as a result we sometimes end up folding the best hand.
KK facing continued action on paired turn 2/5 Quote
10-25-2014 , 01:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch
If V is calling with hands like 54s we can be 3betting for value a lot bigger than 3x here.
Esp given that someone else called in between, and the fact that it's a blind raise.
I would 3bet to $60 - $70 pre flop.

Flop raise here is horrible.
We accomplish nothing.
If we think that his range is weak, and he won't call a raise we can consider flatting. But if we think that he can call a raise, then we can can raise larger for value. When he donks $40 generally I would either flat or raise here to $150 and in this case it's an easy raise.

On the turn, this is one of the worse turn cards. I guess that I'd just fold. Imo we put our self in a bad spot with all of our previous decisions, and as a result we sometimes end up folding the best hand.
My iPhone is on the fritz, I was basically trying to post this. You want to set up a low SPR and basically stack off on any flop. If you get 140 in the pot and only have 120 or 130 behind you just shove. You will always make money in a spot like that over the long haul.

And I realized this is 2/5. Still raise larger pre. Never min raise the flop, that is really bad. You should be raising much larger and stacking off on most turns.
KK facing continued action on paired turn 2/5 Quote
10-25-2014 , 01:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by tedken12345
In a previous hand, V called my 3 bet pre with 45s and binked it on 525K6 runout against my AK for 100 bb.

100bb effective.
In this particular hand, UTG blind raises to 15.
V calls 15.
I raise to 45 in MP with KK.
All folds to V who calls.

100
T97 rainbow.
V donk bets 40.
I raise to 80.
V calls.

270
Td.
V leads out 125.

What would you do?
Raise more on flop- 100-125.

Basically zero chance he has a nutted hand when he leads out again IMO. call/call

(or bet if he checks river, but small enough that he can call you with a 9 or a 7
KK facing continued action on paired turn 2/5 Quote
10-25-2014 , 01:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iraisetoomuch
If V is calling with hands like 54s we can be 3betting for value a lot bigger than 3x here.
Esp given that someone else called in between, and the fact that it's a blind raise.
I would 3bet to $60 - $70 pre flop.

Flop raise here is horrible.
We accomplish nothing.
If we think that his range is weak, and he won't call a raise we can consider flatting. But if we think that he can call a raise, then we can can raise larger for value. When he donks $40 generally I would either flat or raise here to $150 and in this case it's an easy raise.

On the turn, this is one of the worse turn cards. I guess that I'd just fold. Imo we put our self in a bad spot with all of our previous decisions, and as a result we sometimes end up folding the best hand.

You really think he leads right back into us with a ten?

Interesting, because, given his action I actually think the ten is a really good card for us. What is he trying to do betting trips here? Last time we three bet we showed him AK.
KK facing continued action on paired turn 2/5 Quote
10-25-2014 , 01:14 AM
So a little about donkbetting; fish usually do this to "see where they're at", meaning they have some random pair and they think you have AK so they want to bet to see if you call or raise them, that way they know if they're beat so they can fold to any further action. The only problem is on coordinated boards, sometimes it's a feeler bet with mid pair and sometimes they have a draw and they see this as building a pot in case they hit.

So on a dry board you should just flat with hands like KK since it gives them some rope to fire again on the turn, otherwise they just fold to your raise. On a drawy board the raise is good since you're just value raising against a draw like you would any other hand. Minraising is awful though since he's certainly willing to call more with an OESD, so you should just raise to $120 or ship if you're putting in over 50% of your stack.

Turn obviously blows since it hits half of his donking range which is pairs, and whenever a fish double donkbets he must have something. I'd probably still call it off since he might still feel good about his draw and thinks he's value betting you, player dependent. I wouldnt sweat folding though.
KK facing continued action on paired turn 2/5 Quote
10-25-2014 , 01:57 AM
Update vs this same V later.
Same blind raise to 15.
1 caller and V calls 15.
I raise to 75 with AQo.
All fold to V who calls 75.
180.
6K6 rainbow.
V checks.
I bet 100.
V calls.

280.
8c.
V checks.
I check.

280.
5d.

V checks.
I check and show AQ.
V shows A8o FTW.

I'm beginning to think I should not have folded the KK earlier.
KK facing continued action on paired turn 2/5 Quote

      
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