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Old 06-14-2012, 04:55 AM   #1
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JJ, agasint a minraise.

I don't post a lot and mostly read. i don't claim to be good, just seeking advice to better my play.

Stacks are. Hero 250 UTG+2 , Villain 210 Cutoff. We are playing 1-2$ nl

I have been sitting with villain for about 1 hour ish and he has played maybe 4 hands. I have been in a fair amount of pots, between getting hands and 3 betting to take pots down PF, So my image is pretty Aggressive. One particular hand i saw him flat JJ to a 10$ PFR in a 4 way pot. the table is fairly tight and not many callers PF.

Hero opens for 10$ With JJ Villian calls. HU.

Flop is 256

I lead 21$ into 23$. I gave him a range of 88-AA and some AK AQ suited. no more then that.

Looking now i think my lead is to big and i should of made it closer to 16$.

Villain min raises to 42$. Pot is 86$.

I don't know if my hand strength is hidden that well and he is raising lower PP for value here. I don't know if he is Min raising a FD. Both are in the range i gave him though.

I decided to Re-raise to 120$. I think my hand is to strong to fold. but maybe a call would have been better.

Any criticism is welcome

Last edited by helphasto777; 06-14-2012 at 05:16 AM.
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Old 06-14-2012, 07:41 AM   #2
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Re: JJ, agasint a minraise.

Really need more info on villain, if you have played an hour with him you should be able to provide a better description of him than you have.

$21 is an ok size, call raise and re-evaluate turn. I probably c/f most turns though. If he checks back turn I'm really not sure which is best otr, b/f or c/c. Probably b/f.
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:00 AM   #3
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Re: JJ, agasint a minraise.

Call flop and donk non-spade turn.
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:02 AM   #4
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Re: JJ, agasint a minraise.

I would say his pf calling range is 22-AA (with AA-KK discounted some b/c he may 3bet), ATs+, AJo+, KJs+, KQo, QJs, JTs

Thus this flop is only hitting his pair and flush draw hands. Betting makes sense to give him a chance to fold any overcards, to call with lower pps and fds

When he minraises I put him on sets 66, 55, 22, maybe overpairs QQ, TT, 99, AA, KK. Unlikely fd+overs since someone who understands these hands can be played as a semi-bluff also understands that a minraise is bad raise sizing to make a semi-bluff, though it's possible. It's also possible that he's putting you on AK-AQ or some other whiff and is trying to make a move for the minimum to get you to fold

If we raise it allows him to play perfectly against us since he can shove his sets and pairs bigger than ours and fold TT or worse knowing we have a big pair

That leaves call or fold. Pot is $86 and it's $21 to call which gives immediate odds of 4-1, but by the time you factor in that we're likely going to have to call a bet on the turn and river at even money to show the hand down our odds lessen (when we're beat, when we're ahead he may bet small or check back on a lot of turn cards). We only have 2 outs vs a higher pair or set, which means we're crushed when we're behind.

The fact that you have an aggressive image makes it more likely he could be making a move, though most passive players fight aggression by calling more often, not by raising.

I think I call the small raise and re-eval on the turn. If he bets small or checks back and overcard w e can be pretty sure we're ahead, if he bet big we can be pretty sure we're beat
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Old 06-14-2012, 08:04 AM   #5
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Re: JJ, agasint a minraise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sexdotcom View Post
Call flop and donk non-spade turn.
What range are you putting him on after his minraise and how do you expect him to react with the different hands in that range vs your donk on the turn?
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Old 06-14-2012, 11:04 AM   #6
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Re: JJ, agasint a minraise.

I'm stacking off here. Reason being is that fish tend to minraise with very strong hands, but tend to overbet when they want protection. This flop needs protection vs any set, so I just cannot believe he'd ever minraise here with a set. However if he has a big combo draw then he's more than happy to play for stacks, therefore he minraises to try and get it in. Whatever hand he has he's horribly misplaying so we have to assume he's bad. If he flopped the nuts or whatever, take a note and remember it for next time. Not much we can do with little history vs a fish OOP on a wet flop holding a big overpair as the initial raiser.
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Old 06-14-2012, 11:20 AM   #7
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Re: JJ, agasint a minraise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rusty Bumwaters View Post
What range are you putting him on after his minraise and how do you expect him to react with the different hands in that range vs your donk on the turn?
Fish likes to min-raise with TP and/or FD.
First to see where they at, 2nd so he can check back the turn for a free river card.
Sets tend to be raised on the turn.
Of-course we could be completely crushed here...but thats poker.
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:17 PM   #8
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Re: JJ, agasint a minraise.

I think you flop c-betting size is fine. You obviously have value with JJ, but your ep range in general should have value on this flop. I like cbetting 3/4-~pot with my entire range in your situation.

Now on to how to handle villain's flop min-raise. I think the range you gave villain is probably fine, but I would have to think you can discount at least AA/KK (and possibly QQ some) because he would more likely 3bet those hands. If all the money goes into the pot you'd be risking $179 to win $244. You'd need 42% equity to breakeven. Giving villain AA-88 and AsKs/AsQs you'd have 47%. If you take AA and KK out you have 65%. So basically folding is out of the equation and it's a question of calling or raising. Personally I think calling is better because it definitely keeps 88-TT in villain's range. And my intention on the turn is to probably call all turn cards despite the fact a Ts, 9s or 8s would kind of suck. There'd be just too much money in the pot in relation to our stack size to fold imo.
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:24 PM   #9
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Re: JJ, agasint a minraise.

o man I hate minraises, they always have a nutty hand, sizing is really a tell...
if he made it more than 50, i'd be tempted to jam just because he could have a fd and want u to fold, but the minraise is "i want u to call" coz "nobody folds to minraises"
I think I would fold here
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Old 06-14-2012, 12:31 PM   #10
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Re: JJ, agasint a minraise.

Grunch
Without having concrete info about how this villian plays draws, your stack is too large to stack off with an over pair. That said, the bottom of his range is probably just a pair with a draw or maybe just TP. And there's a decent chance he sees your large Cbet as evidence that u have AK and u just want him to go away. Id call his min raise and probably fold to any substantial bets on the turn or river.
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Old 06-14-2012, 03:45 PM   #11
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Re: JJ, agasint a minraise.

He shoved over my 120$ bet and i was forced to call the rest.

He showed KK.

i just am confused whether he does this with lower PP. and that was my thought.

i did put AA KK in his range. But im just surprised he didn't 3 bet KK against me. Maybe it was correct since i have been aggressive and am likely to cbet often. But he doesn't know the value of my hand and he doesn't know how strong i am.
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Old 06-14-2012, 05:39 PM   #12
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Re: JJ, agasint a minraise.

He probably thought he was trapping you and doesnt understand how horrible of a flop this is to do it, and how badly his raise is enabling you to usually play perfectly against him. I'm sure if you hit a straight/set/flush on him he'd think you were the donkey for calling.
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