How often does villain "get out of line"/bluff-raise the turn with other parts of his range is he over-bluffing? Does he have a turn raising range in this spot vs. you of 6x or 4x or have you seen him just calling it down... reads would be helpful

Im checking and bluffcatching/calling almost any river any A, K, or Q should hit us pretty well... + i don't mind checking/having a checking range in this spot depending on his river tendencies (does he bluff OTR in these spots, will he thin value bet a worse 2-pair, will he call a river bet instead of a turn bet etc...)

Thing is if we get raised we will have to call 2 big bets likely to get to showdown in this particular spot.

Actually checking would be more +EV now that i think about it we never have any 6x or 4x in our range and esp now on that turn he has the range advantage pretty much, UNLESS villain is a massive calling station i would check and call any river bet/value bet when xed to (depends tho not 100% for sure if we had AA i would snap tho lol).

The other guy lied all the time, too, so can't really believe you, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

You're giving me the benefit of the doubt in the same sentence where you call me a liar.

Classy

Giving you the benefit of the doubt was extremely kind and classy of me.

Grunch, a lot deeper I may check behind but given V has shown that he will call you light and the propensity to spazz, I think I bet call it off here, he has 5 value combos of 6x7x and Ax6x and 44 that limp call pre-most likely, and you will miss value from all the pocket pairs that he has that might get sticky on the turn.

PEZ and Java, your ego war is cute but lets talk poker.

This btw OP.

Wonder if villain thin value bets river w/worse 2pairs or is he always polarized that is if you face a bet. If he checks your golden most of the time...

Also why would you want to induce a bluff x-raise in this spot lol? I misread your post OP just no... seriously not in this spot. He gets here with a pretty strong range if you wanted to induce a bluff x-raise just size you flop bet to like 1/3-1/2 pot sizing with like AA next time and if he's as agro as you say he is let him spew into u OTF where he ACTUALLY has more bluffs.

I dont think this player is really thinking, he only tried to steal the pot in hand 1 because you guys played is so insanely weak. He probably had KJo with king of spades or something and just went for it. Also if he says he was stealing he's probably lying. You should basically assume the exact opposite of anything anyone ever says at the table. Wouldnt be surprised if he actually had some value hand there. Which by the way his weak $20 button raise over 4 limpers is pathetic, you absolutely should have 3bet there, and should have immediately labeled him a fish and not a good player. Not surprised to see what happened with the AJ hand.

As for this hand, just keep bettting. He probably has something like 77-TT and cant fold. If you check it to him yeah maybe he'll bet, but you keep missing value in these spots trying to get fancy. Just recognize him for the ridiculous station that he is and take advantage of it while you're running hot.

I agree with this. Can't see us getting 3 streets on a double paired board. Check back turn and call his river bet. Bet/call river if checked to

A 160 bet to induce could work, or checking would be just as good. Have to call a raise with the intention of calling a clean river.

I bet 150 on the turn. After about 10 seconds, he raised to 375.

Now what?

Villain in this hand was not the raiser in the AQ hand. Reread the OP.

Fold, your'e toast

If I bet turn against this player, it's not to fold to a raise. If that was my plan, I'd check turn. He knows you don't have a 6 or 4 and he can put so much pressure on here.

Why would we ever bet/fold this turn? To blow him off a hand we beat? Why? To pray he calls w/ worse than JJ? Maybe. To pray he folds better than JJ? Never happen.

Also, why would he raise if he did have a 6 or a 4? He could be one step ahead and know we think he's bluffing and might call, I guess. He should never want us to fold.

We have a player who called it off with second pair into a dry side pot. He's known to try and steal, but only in teh face of weak sauce action at the table. Here he's been fired on three times, and finally NOW decides to bluff?? I don't think so.

I would not have bet the turn -- for this exact reason. Bet/folding the turn against this guy is just burning money. You just love to bet/fold and I can't imagine how you make any money doing it over and over again since in most of the hands on this forum you would end up folding.

You just make things up to fit your reasons for acting, and it's not even worth discussing. Stop replying to my posts, please, and I promise to do the same.

Stop posting such terrible advice. And don't do it in direct response to my posts, and then ask me questions directly, if you don't want answers.

You're ego won't let you be bluffed here, ever, so you go broke every single time. There's a word for that


Saying I make things up....is made up

I am not the only person advocating a check on the turn or that bet/fold is a bad idea and a bet/call would be better, but I am the only person you are annoying with your red font.

If you want to say why you advocate bet/fold, do it. Don't quote me. My questions are to the forum, not just you.

I honestly think you give some of the worst advice possible in this forum, and I will stop reading your threads or replying to them. They rarely do any of us any good.

I'm stacking off.

Too often he's protecting his pp/raising here in order to not face a tough river spot.

Limp/calling in a straddled put is so often 77-99 given this action, which this V can easily think is the nuts here. He's smart enough to realize that we have almost zero 6s or 4s in our range and lots of possible bluffs.

I like jamming here on the turn only because a call looks very strong and he might check/fold the river.

**Don't think he's bluffing but we likely have him beat

At the time of this writing, yes you are.

Happy to

First, let's start with our reads.

We saw him steal (maybe), on a wet, flushed, paired board, with multiple players, playing weakly. Maybe a little spewy, but overall, an ok squeeze. All of the conditions were there. We also saw call down into a side pot with second pair.

We don't know that this guy has a bluff button. Maybe he executed a steal on a previous hand. Maybe he had the goods. We don't know. But if he bluffed, it was under very very different circumstances than we have here. If he did have the goods on the previous hand then he revealed it by raising the turn.

We also know, from the other hand history, that he loves his show-down value. Indicating that 77-TT would simply flat our bet.

We have absolutely NOTHING that suggests that this guy would be bluffing here. To believe he is bluffing would be to believe that he planned and executed a multi-street check/raise bluff, to try and push a LLSNL player off of an overpair. That is crazy with a capital K.

He's not trying to get you to fold. So, what should you do?

Pretty sure I said this already though.

There may be a reason to raise FH. He is oop and affraid we check back river. Ofc he can call and donk river but it is the same sign of strength as c/r.

Right, he's gotta get value sometime

and I'd argue that a line of check/call - check/call - lead river is an even more nutted line than this.

Theres no reason to have a betting range in this spot on the 4 given our range, unless you are vs. a whale/super loose passive player who calls with a lot worse and won't bluff-raise etc... We are still getting 2 streets of value regardless if we bet the turn or not.

Dunno what you guys are arguing about seems so trivial at this point.

Trying to induce anything OTT here is just FPS/-EV @ OP. Period.