I told myself I would never but I'm ok with it..

5/5 $300-500 buyin
Hero has been aggressive as usual, but today played a lot of pot control with 1pair hands OTT, still getting lots of value OTR

Hero opens $25 UTG+2, one call, BTN makes it $100, Hero makes it $300, 1 fold, BTN makes it $500 more ($800 total) with $450 behind. Hero covers.

I tank.. I say, I have kings, do you want to just throw $500 in the middle (the $800 total he made it) and check it down? He then turns to the tv and freezes. I tank, I say I've never folded kings before and I don't think I can fold, ask him a couple more times, no answer.

BTN is a reg, very patient. We were playing 3 handed earlier and while me and the other aggro kid's stacks were going through a roller coaster, he did not spew. Before the hand he was sitting at $1300 for 2 hours, card dead.

He claims to have had QQ, but idk if I believe him. He said "if I had aces I would've taken the deal" but I don't think I believe that either, because he's prob never expecting me to fold KK. The guy who folded behind me folded AK. Would he really be willing to risk $1300 with QQ? Idk


This probably shouldn't have factored into my decision, but it did: I was in the game for $1100 and was sitting at $2900 when the hand started. If I lose the hand I have $1600 left and its the end of my session (or I stay and tilt off my stack). The session before I lost $1850 and felt gross about it, so before the hand started I made that all back.


This is especially gross because I'm a super aggro young kid, so many villains will stack off to me with QQ or worse (I think).

Totally villain dependent. I play aggro and someone.5 bet shoved my AA with their 9s... Who knows

Fml

I don't like your 4bet sizing.

After a long painful exhibition, flat his raise see a flop, check the flop (especially if you hit your set). Your pre-flop pain may limit his bet size on the flop. Ace on the flop fold to his bet.

Your 3-bet is worthless unless you're willing to shove to his 4 bet -and you're obviously not. Think ahead next time and see the flop. In fact you can call this hand down to every bet he makes and still show down your KK for less (or maybe a little more) than you lost by 3-betting and then folding.

It comes down to ranges. What is his 3 bet range? In most cases of LLSNL, it is QQ+, AK. When you 4 bet, you're saying to the villain you have AA or KK. If the villain has any sense, he knows that any bluff is -EV. AA is playing no matter what. KK isn't going to fold easily. Therefore, he's folding virtually everything that you beat.

It is much better to just call the 3bet. As played, yeah you can fold.

I agree, 2.4x the 3b is much more standard 4b sizing. 4bets can be smaller because the act of 4betting itself is very strong.

I disagree with everything stated above. Is villain really that much of a nit, that when there is a raise and a call and he squeezes, we have to put serious weight on the possibility that he has AA???? Really?


Anyway, as played, tank then fold is fine.... BUT DON'T friggin tell the guy you mucked KK!!!!!! BTW, A live donk 5betting QQ...... yeah, right. I'll believe it when I see it.

this, he had AA

most live players 3 bet range is KK AA and 4 bet is AA exclusively

he probably had A A to 5 bet afraid of double suited aces

+1

Maybe I play in games that are super tight, but anything more than a 3 bet in a live game less than 5/10 is KK+100% of the time, every time

No, you play in games that are super passive

For me, where I play, My value 3betting range is {AQs+/JJ+} very often its even wider to include 88+/ATs+/KQs. And thats "for value", since you can also have a range of light-3bets.

From there, my 4betting range is much more polarized. Usually AK/KK+ or tighter (KK+) against the nittier villains and looser (AK/QQ+) against others... but at that point stack sizes become really important as well. I becomes more and more polarized the deeper the stacks.

Its funny that nobody talks about 3bets including AK.

Nah we don't have to we can just shove our huge stack in and hope he has QQ, lol.

$300 MORE on a 4-bet over the $200 that was already bet is usually polarized to KK/AA sorry.

I hate your sizing which basically ensures we ONLY get called by KK/AA

Yeah, as played super easy fold. There is no way he is 5betting you like this w QQ/AK, just doesn't happen.

And seriously, don't advertise that you are folding KK. This was one of my biggest leaks.

The ONLY way he can have QQ here is if you guys have been in an ego-maniac levelling war all night showing sick bluffs on each other and spewing racial epithets at each other to the point where the floor has issued you several warnings...

Barring that, super easy fold. He had AA

Id just shoved on him and if he's got AA then he's got AA, if not then ur in great shape to win a monster.

Don't think I could fold those KKs bc you do see alot of super aggro players making those same plays with QQs, JJs, AK even at times.

Also you never wanna think about "well Im in the game for this, and Im at that..." Just try to play your hand optimally at all times and let the chips fall where they may

how are you going to win a monster if you shove and he fold his bluff?
Folding here means you are giving up a small edge, or calling/shoving and make a potential huge mistake.