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I hate 4 bet pots I hate 4 bet pots

04-28-2017 , 12:40 AM
2/5

Villain 1 seems like a standard tag

Villain 2 seems very lag. Has already 3 bet me twice in the 30 mins ive been at the table and ive folded both times, and 3 bet another guy once. Hasnt seemed too out of line post flop (hasnt been caught bluffing) but still seems agro post. Could very well be a winning lag player.

Villain 1 raises to 15 utg ($700)
Folds to villain 2 in co who raises to $45 ($1100)
Folds to hero in sb who raises to $125 with AA ($1000)
Villain 1 folds, villain 2 calls

flop ($265) --->$875 effective
Q72 rainbow

Hero bets $160, villain calls

Turn ($585) ---$715 remaining
Q729 rainbow

Hero checks, villain checks

River ($585)
Q729T

Hero bets $260, villain quickly says all in, hero?

Bleh. Hate cold 4 betting. I checked ott, mainly because stacks seemed to be good for a check shove, rather than a small bet or an overshove. Plus im against an agro opponent so i thought id throw him some rope...but is there any point to this? After the cold 4 bet pre,both of us know i have aces or kings. Then the river happens and I want to puke a little bit. Did i butcher this?
I hate 4 bet pots Quote
04-28-2017 , 12:48 AM
Wouldn't mind a flop check. You literally cannot have any bluffs on this board textures, and we can just give a LAG rope to hang himself when we make our hand look like AK.

River is a really annoying card. I'd probably x/c because the T is a much better card for his range than ours, and he'd be more likely to bluff at it. I think he's probably also value betting a Q himself at some frequency.

Vs the shove, it's really bleh haha. Think calling and folding are close.
I hate 4 bet pots Quote
04-28-2017 , 01:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by niceguy22
2/5

Villain 1 seems like a standard tag

Villain 2 seems very lag. Has already 3 bet me twice in the 30 mins ive been at the table and ive folded both times, and 3 bet another guy once. Hasnt seemed too out of line post flop (hasnt been caught bluffing) but still seems agro post. Could very well be a winning lag player.

Villain 1 raises to 15 utg ($700)
Folds to villain 2 in co who raises to $45 ($1100)
Folds to hero in sb who raises to $125 with AA ($1000)
Villain 1 folds, villain 2 calls

flop ($265) --->$875 effective
Q72 rainbow

Hero bets $160, villain calls

Turn ($585) ---$715 remaining
Q729 rainbow

Hero checks, villain checks

River ($585)
Q729T

Hero bets $260, villain quickly says all in, hero?

Bleh. Hate cold 4 betting. I checked ott, mainly because stacks seemed to be good for a check shove, rather than a small bet or an overshove. Plus im against an agro opponent so i thought id throw him some rope...but is there any point to this? After the cold 4 bet pre,both of us know i have aces or kings. Then the river happens and I want to puke a little bit. Did i butcher this?
Some will probably chastise this play, but I would 4-bet to a size that denies my opponent the correct odds to set mine. This way, I can be sure to stack off post flop and not worry too much about it. Additionally, this allows me to 4-bet bluff with AK and get enough folds from 99-QQ from tighter players in order to show a profit.

Make it atleast $175. But being OOP against this type of Lag, I would have made it $200-$225, If your opponent has KK he ain't folding. QQ probably calls as well. People hate folding premiums before the flop so exploit this by overcharging the hell out of them.

As you've found out, Being OOP when you are this deep is a huge disadvantage here. Your opponent can rep so many board run outs when you are capped to AA. Overbetting pre to avoid a massive RIO spot is never a big mistake IMO.

Even though you haven't seen this guy bluff, in my experience, 3-bet pots bring out the best of everyone and people fight like hell to win a pot.

The hand is weird. I really don't think he would call a flop bet with 99 or TT. We can't even be sure he would 3-bet an UTG open with 99 or TT. There are no draws. He wouldn't turn KK into a bluff on the river.

It sucks to put a guy squarely on QQ. I think there's a chance he might have made two pair, if he called the 4bet with QT or Q9 suited.

Gross spot man.

Last edited by mark "twang"; 04-28-2017 at 01:56 AM.
I hate 4 bet pots Quote
04-28-2017 , 04:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark "twang"
Some will probably chastise this play, but I would 4-bet to a size that denies my opponent the correct odds to set mine. This way, I can be sure to stack off post flop and not worry too much about it. Additionally, this allows me to 4-bet bluff with AK and get enough folds from 99-QQ from tighter players in order to show a profit.

Make it atleast $175. But being OOP against this type of Lag, I would have made it $200-$225, If your opponent has KK he ain't folding. QQ probably calls as well. People hate folding premiums before the flop so exploit this by overcharging the hell out of them.

As you've found out, Being OOP when you are this deep is a huge disadvantage here. Your opponent can rep so many board run outs when you are capped to AA. Overbetting pre to avoid a massive RIO spot is never a big mistake IMO.

Even though you haven't seen this guy bluff, in my experience, 3-bet pots bring out the best of everyone and people fight like hell to win a pot.

The hand is weird. I really don't think he would call a flop bet with 99 or TT. We can't even be sure he would 3-bet an UTG open with 99 or TT. There are no draws. He wouldn't turn KK into a bluff on the river.

It sucks to put a guy squarely on QQ. I think there's a chance he might have made two pair, if he called the 4bet with QT or Q9 suited.

Gross spot man.
I agree. In a spot like this, when it's possible, I raise a bit over 10% of effective stacks. 155 or so sounds good to me. I don't want to make it insanely large. Then it's easy to just bet/bet/bet our stack on most board run outs.
I hate 4 bet pots Quote
04-28-2017 , 06:12 AM
$150 to go pre. I play 4bet/fold from the SB facing an open/3bet ahead of me, and I'll assume you do too.

On the flop, I'd bet smaller.

AP, on the turn, I don't mind the check.

AP, OTR, I'm folding to jam and not worrying about being exploited or overfolding.
I hate 4 bet pots Quote
04-28-2017 , 11:32 PM
I tanked and ended up making what I now think was a slightly -ev call, and I was good. Guy is just a bit of a sicko and had 5s7s.

He's at the bottom of his range so maybe not a terrible play if we're talking about balance. Although guess if he has Qx that could be a better bluffing hand since he blocks top set. Just a sick bold play though. He def knew I had AA-KK.

Last edited by niceguy22; 04-28-2017 at 11:41 PM.
I hate 4 bet pots Quote
04-28-2017 , 11:43 PM
I agree with the larger preflop consensus. AP, snapcall. Not fistpump, but snap.

Main reason is he checked the turn. That widens his range (more accurately, does not narrow his range) to the point where the T can't be over-interpreted as only giving him monsters.
I hate 4 bet pots Quote
04-28-2017 , 11:46 PM
Against a good lag, im playing straightforward. More pre, more otf, and betting and not folding the rest of the way. Go ahead and exploit.
I hate 4 bet pots Quote
04-29-2017 , 12:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnyalbo
Against a good lag, im playing straightforward. More pre, more otf, and betting and not folding the rest of the way. Go ahead and exploit.
Yah I don't I don't understand why this wasn't just a b/b/b.

If he's not calling river then do it with AK as well.

Easy game.
I hate 4 bet pots Quote
04-29-2017 , 01:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonnyalbo
Against a good lag, im playing straightforward. More pre, more otf, and betting and not folding the rest of the way. Go ahead and exploit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
Yah I don't I don't understand why this wasn't just a b/b/b.

If he's not calling river then do it with AK as well.

Easy game.
These. You guys try too hard with nonsense lines and words.
I hate 4 bet pots Quote

      
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