Two Plus Two Publishing LLC Two Plus Two Publishing LLC
 

Go Back   Two Plus Two Poker Forums > >

Notices

Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-27-2012, 08:05 PM   #176
LotGrinder
Pooh-Bah
 
LotGrinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 4,243
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexM View Post
If you're playing in a game where most players are "playing sheriff", you're playing in a dream game. Sure, adjust for that and don't bluff. But it's not normal.
Some are playing sheriff, others are just too dumb to fold top pair or they catch an overcard to the board when chasing a flush draw or straight draw. These type of players will call you on river.

I would say hammering at pots early in a session might be ok if you are a true LAG player. When you do get caught bluffing, you'll have the table set up to peel you with 2nd pair, and you will then bank on your monsters.

But, just hammering the pot over and over at $1/$2.... I don't see it being profitable over the long haul... but to each their own.

Love the commentary in this thread.
LotGrinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 08:10 PM   #177
LotGrinder
Pooh-Bah
 
LotGrinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 4,243
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokahBlows View Post
Playing abc is fine. Its just something I'm not doing when most weak players 90% of our opponents c/c flop and fold turn.

Its all villain dependent board texture and what lines villain's take.

Most people here advocate never firing 3barrels vs a nit. When the time is correct it can be applied when you are the pfr.

Here is my last 3barrel pot.


Hero has A K in the sb, everyone limps nit bb calls my 25$ bet in a 1/3 game.

Flop J 8x 4

Hero bets 40$, nit calls.

Turn 6

Hero bets 60, nit calls

River 9. Hero say "**** in his head" if I check I lose the pot. Hero bets 20$, nit folds lmao.
This doesn't make sense. What does the nit have here? Was he calling you all the way down with A/K or A/Q then just gave up for $20.00. So weird, but hey.. you won the pot...
LotGrinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 08:12 PM   #178
PokahBlows
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,005
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

Yeah you don't get it and its ok. You don't have the agg factor. I play a tight aggressive style. PFR/FE/board texture. It takes awhile to recognize the spots. With your attitude you will never find those spots. It took me bart hanson podcast and sabr's contribution to the forums. ABC tight low agg is poor poker imo. If your on 2+2 your just wasting your talents playing abc Tight because its no agg in abc poker.
PokahBlows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 08:15 PM   #179
kenji08
old hand
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 1,364
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexM View Post
You think LAGs can beat 1/2 for $25? I question that.
im pretty sure they can make more, depends on where you play, casino i play at has the deepest 1/2 games around and its always juicy.
kenji08 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 08:27 PM   #180
Jeff76
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 4,244
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokahBlows View Post
Yeah you don't get it and its ok. You don't have the agg factor. I play a tight aggressive style. PFR/FE/board texture. It takes awhile to recognize the spots. With your attitude you will never find those spots. It took me bart hanson podcast and sabr's contribution to the forums. ABC tight low agg is poor poker imo. If your on 2+2 your just wasting your talents playing abc Tight because its no agg in abc poker.
Because betting $20 into a $200 is hyper aggro?
Jeff76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 08:33 PM   #181
PokahBlows
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff76 View Post
Because betting $20 into a $200 is hyper aggro?
Didn't say anything about hyper aggro. But let's take how grinder would play the hand. He would cbet flop, check turn, and check river. Then nit will show him pocket tens or some crap j.
PokahBlows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 08:36 PM   #182
LotGrinder
Pooh-Bah
 
LotGrinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 4,243
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokahBlows View Post
Yeah you don't get it and its ok. You don't have the agg factor. I play a tight aggressive style. PFR/FE/board texture. It takes awhile to recognize the spots. With your attitude you will never find those spots. It took me bart hanson podcast and sabr's contribution to the forums. ABC tight low agg is poor poker imo. If your on 2+2 your just wasting your talents playing abc Tight because its no agg in abc poker.
I think I understand LAG play just fine, it's just not something I've perfected and I am going to only use it in spots until I do feel more comfortable with the overall playing style.

I don't think double or triple barreling pots with AIR often would ever be good strategy at $1/$2 though...

That being said, I'd love to have you at my table. Not because I think I'd take your cash, but just because you'd be great for action/getting the nits/fish on tilt.
LotGrinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 08:39 PM   #183
LotGrinder
Pooh-Bah
 
LotGrinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 4,243
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokahBlows View Post
Didn't say anything about hyper aggro. But let's take how grinder would play the hand. He would cbet flop, check turn, and check river. Then nit will show him pocket tens or some crap j.
No, if the nit called you with pocket 10's on flop/turn, nit is calling the $20.00 bet on the river.

You had the nit on tilt and he was chasing A/K, A/Q, or A/10, K/Q, K/10 because he was mad at you.

He gave up when he had air on the river, you most likely had him beat the whole way.

Great that he donated to you like that though, it shows one way your style can be profitable. Imagine if you had QQ, KK, or AA and the nit flopped top pair. Seems he was so mad that you'd have stacked him.

Also, I'd have bet flop/turn... I would have checked river though... you're right on that part.
LotGrinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 08:42 PM   #184
SABR42
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
SABR42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: printing money
Posts: 18,210
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokahBlows View Post
Playing abc is fine. Its just something I'm not doing when most weak players 90% of our opponents c/c flop and fold turn.

Its all villain dependent board texture and what lines villain's take.

Most people here advocate never firing 3barrels vs a nit. When the time is correct it can be applied when you are the pfr.

Here is my last 3barrel pot.


Hero has A K in the sb, everyone limps nit bb calls my 25$ bet in a 1/3 game.

Flop J 8x 4

Hero bets 40$, nit calls.

Turn 6

Hero bets 60, nit calls

River 9. Hero say "**** in his head" if I check I lose the pot. Hero bets 20$, nit folds lmao.
This is played terribly (on the river).

I hate to be the one to call people out, but you're acting very condescending for someone who doesn't really have a solid grasp of what he's doing. I've read some of your posts and you seem to be applying blind aggression without really thinking about why. Also, no need to suck up to me or anything, I'm just a low-stakes grinder who happens to be the big shark in a small pond.
SABR42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 08:43 PM   #185
zebpoker
centurion
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 113
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by LotGrinder View Post
This doesn't make sense. What does the nit have here? Was he calling you all the way down with A/K or A/Q then just gave up for $20.00. So weird, but hey.. you won the pot...
Even nits tend to raise with AK and AQ on the button, (oops read that wrong, was on BB)
Most people call the $20 with practically any pair if not just out of curiosity, so I'm guessing he might have had no pair, like 9T
Betting $20 is levelling yourself, I see it a lot, and you just know if they made it $60 or something that looks like a bet even approximating a normal value bet, then the bluff would have worked.
zebpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 08:43 PM   #186
bubonicplay
Pooh-Bah
 
bubonicplay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: LV, $$
Posts: 3,966
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

$25 an hour is like winning 1 tiny pot per hour, you should be trying to make tripple that.
bubonicplay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 08:45 PM   #187
PokahBlows
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,005
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

I wouldn't advise you to be at my table. I'm not an action player. I told you I'm tight aggressive. My bluffs work because I'm tight. You think I'm doing this when I first sit down. Hell no, you need a good image to bluff. You have to play tight for an hour or more to get precise reads. Talk to the players you think are good try to get background information.

Its just standard tag dude. I don't play a lag game. Nothing special but a little aggro factor post flop vs perceived ranges.
PokahBlows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 08:48 PM   #188
LotGrinder
Pooh-Bah
 
LotGrinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 4,243
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by zebpoker View Post
Even nits tend to raise with AK and AQ on the button.
Most people call the $20 with practically any pair if not just out of curiosity, so I'm guessing he might have had no pair, like 9T
Betting $20 is levelling yourself, I see it a lot, and you just know if they made it $60 or something that looks like a bet even approximating a normal value bet, then the bluff would have worked.
If the guy playing LAG raises to $25.00 on the button at 1/3, you think a NIT is calling with a suited connector to play him heads up?

Go back and read pokahblows post again... I don't see a NIT calling his A/K suited club raise in that spot.

The Nit would have to have one of the hands I posted, I'd think... again... unless he had the nit so mad he was calling with junk. I actually think pokah blows A/K was best hand on river.
LotGrinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 08:50 PM   #189
LotGrinder
Pooh-Bah
 
LotGrinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 4,243
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by PokahBlows View Post
I wouldn't advise you to be at my table. I'm not an action player. I told you I'm tight aggressive. My bluffs work because I'm tight. You think I'm doing this when I first sit down. Hell no, you need a good image to bluff. You have to play tight for an hour or more to get precise reads. Talk to the players you think are good try to get background information.

Its just standard tag dude. I don't play a lag game. Nothing special but a little aggro factor post flop vs perceived ranges.
I think I may have confused you with another poster who said he's a LAG.

I appreciate your thoughts, I try to sponge all I can, I admit I don't have the balls to triple barrel with AIR at $1/$2 or $1/$3, if you consistently find spots to do it and it works, that's awesome. Many ways to skin a cat.
LotGrinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 09:02 PM   #190
PokahBlows
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,005
Quote:
Originally Posted by SABR42 View Post
This is played terribly (on the river).

I hate to be the one to call people out, but you're acting very condescending for someone who doesn't really have a solid grasp of what he's doing. I've read some of your posts and you seem to be applying blind aggression without really thinking about why. Also, no need to suck up to me or anything, I'm just a low-stakes grinder who happens to be the big shark in a small pond.
Ok like I said its the only move otr. Blind aggression no I think that's you being down 2k often. Trust me I play nothing like you, your a lag I play more Tag game, but your the only guy on this sub forum who does not pot control 100% of the time. I didn't say you had a better strategy its that you advocate an aggressive style. Nobody here advocates that. So when I reference you its not sucking up. Its just that this is the lowest of grade of 2+2 sub forum.

If your going by my post of hands then I guess I don't have a grasp on poker. I post hands I play badly. I could post 100s of hands that I played perfectly, including the AK hand. Who are you to tell me I played the hand bad. My plan worked, I got to fold a better hand.

Blind aggression yeah I read ed millers book too. I was saying that comment to a lot of people after reading ed millers book. That's something I don't do. I have solid fundamentals and no internet jockey can ever tell me that I'm not solid.

Just played with some 400nl/600nl and sometimes 1000nl player. He knew I was solid I doubt you ever played that high.


Thanks for commenting on my post. I'm new at this forum stuff its always room for improvement in posting.
PokahBlows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 09:07 PM   #191
LotGrinder
Pooh-Bah
 
LotGrinder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 4,243
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

I appreciate your posts, keep posting.

This place is a wealth of information.

You just have to review all the "tools" that poker players post and decide which ones you are comfortable with using/putting in your shed.
LotGrinder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 09:10 PM   #192
SABR42
Carpal \'Tunnel
 
SABR42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: printing money
Posts: 18,210
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

I didn't say you play badly in general.

Some of your posts in this topic and others are condescending to others. That's what I called you out on.

As for your other nonsense... I WAS a 200/400/600nl player online and a 3ptbb winner, so lol...

You have ego issues.

Last edited by SABR42; 02-27-2012 at 09:10 PM. Reason: at PokahBlows
SABR42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 09:15 PM   #193
PokahBlows
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,005
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

Yes I do sometimes. That's because I work very hard on my game. I wake up and its poker all day.

If someone wants to talk about abc tag is better then lag or real tag game. I'm going to call them out on it. ABC tag doesn't exploit most players in low stakes. The more people I get on the same level as me. The better my time will be here.

There is always room for improvement that's why I work so hard on my game everyday. 16hours of poker everyday. One day I will get it, one day I will get people to understand my views. Now is not that time and I have plenty of work to do.
PokahBlows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 09:19 PM   #194
zebpoker
centurion
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 113
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

I think what a few TAG 1/2 players don't realise is even the very occasional LAG play even when not played that well and in -EV circumstances can massively make a +EV meta-game difference. Even bad players at 1-2 can tell a TAG player who plays like they're following some damn chart of starting hands. Even really bad players quickly learn to "respect your game" in a way that they're happy to just not get involved with you (and will even tell you that to your face like they're being respectful or doing you a bloody favour). When I think back to my biggest winning sessions and my biggest pots, most of them came from playing quite trashy hands like T8s deep-stacked. The kind of hands that send half the table on tilt and one guy scratching his head and mumbling "ten, eight..." for the next half hour. One shown bluff or big pot won with a trashy starting hand can be enough to set you up for night out in value-town.

I'm a TAG player with the occasional LAG in me, not a consistent LAG player, I couldn't handle that style, that kind of variance. And for me, it is mainly an image and range balancing thing.

LotGrinder has the right attitude as well when it comes to image (see his thread on Las Vegas forum). I've met so many young 1/2 players who love to play the part of a poker pro. I firmly believe that in most 1/2 and 2/5 games you should be doing the opposite. Stop riffling those chips, stop talking about insider 2+2 jokes, stop analysing the last hand to death like you're going to include it in your upcoming e-book. Dress like a crazy tourist, sound like a crazy tourist and help loosen up the table.

My profit in live games, especially in Vegas has come from being called down light, not from running over a nitty table. I pray to god that the games haven't changed so much that the only way you can beat these games is through no-showdown pots.

I know most experienced players like to reveal as little information as possible and never show bluffs, but in really juicy games, I get to bluff so little, I nearly always show it. In the past, Vegas has always given me great tables with a few nitty mathematical type players capable of laying down made hands. I bluff against them, then show the bluff so the rest of the table that has at least a few players who can't ever let go of top pair can see they're allowed to call me down.

If the games are so full of nits and tags now that the only way to win is playing LAG and scaring people, I'm not bothering to go back.
zebpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 09:28 PM   #195
Dominic
Tripod
 
Dominic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Vegas
Posts: 57,297
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

Pokahblows, that $20 river bet WAS horrible. Sorry. Both the turn and river cards brought in possible straights. What was the range you put your opponent on? What hands did you see him folding to your $20 bet? I mean, I'm calling all my Ace high hands there at that point. (Not that I'd get to the river with many Ace-high hands)

Now, if you soul-read this guy and KNEW he was going to fold to your post-oak bluff, okay, then...good job, I guess.
Dominic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 09:28 PM   #196
AlexM
ignored
 
AlexM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hate cannot drive out hate
Posts: 20,650
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by LotGrinder View Post
This doesn't make sense. What does the nit have here? Was he calling you all the way down with A/K or A/Q then just gave up for $20.00. So weird, but hey.. you won the pot...
T9s. He didn't think his 2nd pair was good.
AlexM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 09:33 PM   #197
PokahBlows
Pooh-Bah
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,005
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

@zebpoker its hard trying to be a fish. I wear hoodies and a ipod when I play. Only one earbud in.

The game is still beatable playing standard abc tag. You don't have to play lag. I think the best style is tag and not giving up on pots and ranging correctly.

Let's take my favorite teacher of the game. Phil Galfond, he has the perfect style he is a little passive at times but he balances. He uses ranges vs range techniques. He knows when his players are on a weak range and will capitalize on it. He also checks a hand he will never fold when he knows only certain hands will fold to a shove with an spr of 1.

Tight is right and balance and aggression is the key to success. So when I show up with 105s/97 I just say thanks galfond I would never play those hands if it wasn't for you.
PokahBlows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 09:35 PM   #198
zebpoker
centurion
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 113
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by LotGrinder View Post
If the guy playing LAG raises to $25.00 on the button at 1/3, you think a NIT is calling with a suited connector to play him heads up?

Go back and read pokahblows post again... I don't see a NIT calling his A/K suited club raise in that spot.

The Nit would have to have one of the hands I posted, I'd think... again... unless he had the nit so mad he was calling with junk. I actually think pokah blows A/K was best hand on river.
Yeah, I completely misread the hand in more ways than one. Thing is though, if you're calling $60 on that turn, what are you folding for $20 on the river? I think AK was probably good as well. The merit to a small bet might be a bluff-stopper, but he was meant to be up against a nit. A nit who called every street until the river.
zebpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 09:37 PM   #199
zebpoker
centurion
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 113
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexM View Post
T9s. He didn't think his 2nd pair was good.
T9 is what I kept thinking, but that was when I missed the fact the the river was a 9, which would make the $20 river bet a great bet and ruin my argument lol.
zebpoker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-27-2012, 09:37 PM   #200
AlexM
ignored
 
AlexM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Hate cannot drive out hate
Posts: 20,650
Re: How To Crush Small-Stakes Live NL

Quote:
Originally Posted by LotGrinder View Post
If the guy playing LAG raises to $25.00 on the button at 1/3, you think a NIT is calling with a suited connector to play him heads up?

Go back and read pokahblows post again... I don't see a NIT calling his A/K suited club raise in that spot.

The Nit would have to have one of the hands I posted, I'd think... again... unless he had the nit so mad he was calling with junk. I actually think pokah blows A/K was best hand on river.
You might want to reread it again yourself:

Hero has A K in the sb, everyone limps nit bb calls my 25$ bet in a 1/3 game"

With 7 or 8 limpers, it's entirely reasonable for the nit to expect a chain reaction when he calls first.

Also, a nit to me is primarily someone who's playing weak/tight post flop. In live poker, they still want to see the flop and will look for excuses to do so.
AlexM is offline   Reply With Quote

Reply
      

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.33 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2016 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright ę 2008-2010, Two Plus Two Interactive
 
 
Poker Players - Streaming Live Online