Great post Riverman! Just what I needed. I was using TAG against the local $1/$2 "Casino Crooks & Clowns Show" with mediocore results. I always felt I wasn't playing enough pots but when I did play I won very little (but also risked very little). So the game didn't seem to beat me but I was not winning a lot.

There are so many callers when I three or four bet I figured they could have anything. It really flatten the value of your hand so it is like playing the lotto.

In LA where I play 1/2 with a buy in $40 - 60 starting out if you have to bet 6 times the blind you might as well go all in. My take is if I am in for more than 1/3 of my chip pre flop I might as well go all in.

My question is can you apply the same strategy to short handed home game?

Thanks!

Level?

Hater, some people just have a lot of money and bet, bet, bet llsnl will let you know they have a hand. 99% play make a hand poker. Don't hate because you can't do it.

You can do this in basically any game that plays deep (or in extreme cases where just 1-2 bad players are very deep).

Here's the thing. The game of poker adjusts. The world is littered with people who were successful at poker at one point but aren't any longer.

The internet kids are saying the same things today that the guys killing the game in 2003 were saying a few years ago.

The fact of the matter is that if you can't beat a 1/2 live game for a LOT, you either aren't good at poker or you have poor game selection.

You may think you're good at poker bc you could beat the micros for 2bb/100, but that doesn't mean you can destroy live 1/2 games. There are some similarities, but its not the same sport. The best ping pong players in the world don't qualify for Wimbledon.

Level?

The thing is a lot of these internet kids think this game is all about math and
"Getting it in good".

On the internet in 2011 that was true. Getting it in preflop with 10-10 vs AJ was good.

But when you're playing 25-30 hands an hour against morons and you're facing rake, gas, tips, and tolls you really aren't getting it in good enough.

You want to be playing for stacks. When I flop two pair I want stacks going in on the flop. When I hit a set I'm not thinking about how to get paid off, I already know I'm getting stacks in. I've done the work the past 6 orbits to ensure that.

The key is you have to be a good enough player that you don't lose a lot of money when you flop one pair with all the crap hands you are playing. You have to make sure people aren't capable of bluff check raising you or three betting you light preflop. A healthy SPR is of course good, but not that necessary if the players are bad.

When a game is playing shallow I make the game deep stacked because its more to my liking. It's quite easy to accomplish after a few orbits of playing crazy. After all, someone has to win the pots I'm building, and others have to rebuy and put more money into the game. If I win the pots right off the bat, great I don't have to waste all night grinding a $200 win. If I don't win immediately I'm only down a few bucks and sitting at a table of bad players with deep stacks with a wild image. Either way the chips are coming my direction, as even "regs" usually become easy targets out of their comfort zone.

So, to be clear, this is or is not a level?

Just play like durrrr and youll win (im serious). Next time you're bored, youtube a couple of highstake poker hands, but instead of just watching it, put yourself in his shoes. Why is he making some of the moves he makes? Its because his opponents look incredibly weak and he know they will fold. If you're uncomfortable playing this hyper aggressive style, you can do an exercise i like to do to build my confidence. Open up pokerstars play money section and sit at 4 tables and shove every hand (im serious about this). This will show you how often people show up with big hands (not very often). It will boost your confidence next time you're affraid to 3bet light or check raise a dry flop from an inevitable c bet. Make sure its a full ring table and try it out.

I don't know if this is the right place to post this but I have a question.

This is my first time playing live and I'm starting out with a really small bankroll (poor college kid). Because of this I can only buy in for roughly 30-40 bb which is the min. So far I have noticed that there is a lot of limping going on and after about five hours of play I don't think I've seen a 3 bet pre. My strategy has been to raise limpers in co and btn with pretty much KQs+ and 99+ and limp 76s+ and the rest of pocket pairs and any broadway suited. Is this the best strategy pre flop as I have also noticed that I am still getting 2+ people to come along post flop after I raise.

On a side note it is amazing to see just how loose and passive live is as even at the lowest stakes online I don't think I've ever seen it like this.

I sort of just highlighted your flaw of using high stake poker as mirror image of LLSNL poker.

durrr will get crushed in LLSNL with the style he used in high stake.

This. People in LLSNL are passive calling stations, they don't fold... You beat them by value betting relentlessly and folding to any aggression.

He might have to make a few adjustments to account for the shorter stack sizes (high stakes played very deep), but there's no way that the main features of Durrs game (aggression, abusing position, putting people to tough decisions), when combined with his hand reading skills, wouldn't crush low stakes.

Durr's style isn't just about betting for the sake of betting... It's about applying pressure when your opponents are likely weak and backing off when they are probably strong, and that skill will translate at any level.

Not when you're opponents are shortstacked calling stations, you need premium hands to win.

Incorrect. They don't fold when they think they have a good hand, or a good enough hand to "play back" against you.

It's obvious that the elements you have listed will be effective at any stake.

Never said that they won't be either, but you won't learn much on application of those elements in LLSNL by watching durrr in high stake poker.

Man I'm tired of hearing passive calling stations and people don't fold. People are not going to the casino to lose their buyins fast. You need to raise more pots. If people played like some of the stories I hear everyone of them would be broke in the first hour. Its just not possible. I usually have one calling station at my table and he is done in about 2-3 hours. Its a reason why they play loose passive. They get to see flops for cheap and their buyin last a long time. You need to be attacking their limps. Then you will hear all the moans and groans everytime you raise. They can't limp big hands everytime. Big hands preflop only make up 2-5% of the possible hands.

Durrrr would crush lowstakes with the same style. Only adjustments he would make is in ep. He is not going to be opening sc's and J5s UTG. But the rest of his game he would still play. He won't be playing abc tag (nit) poker. He would still play lag and apply tons of pressure. The key to lag play is ranging well and "pumping your brakes". Knowing when to get your opponent off that weak hand ott and which hands he thinks is good. Its easy man, but if you don't play real poker and are nitty with your bankroll. You can't play his style.

How many people care about going broke? I say 99% of you care about your low stakes bankroll. Get a job and play aggressive. If you already have a job and playing lowstakes. You will never reach midstakes playing ABC Tag(nit) poker. Its impossible. Just look at the masses. They hate AA, don't raise AK/AQ and raise JJ/1010 super huge.

Tone down your raise size make all your opening bets the same, use balance and make potsize raises in position. Abuse the button and adopt an aggressive button strategy and move to the right if you have nits on your left. But don't go out further then the HJ.

/rant.

I think this discussion comes down to what lessons you draw from watching Durr play. If you think, "wow, Tom just 4 bet an UTG 3bet with 87 suited, I'm going to start doing that too," you're going to burn a lot of money because I'd imagine that a UTG 3 bet at llsnl means AA or KK way more often than it does at high stakes.

If however, the lesson you learn and try to apply to your game is, "hey, Durr seems to win a lot of chips without necessarily having the best hand, how does he do that? Well, he seems to play in position a lot, he plays hands that look kinda funky, but have the potential to make big hands (like suited connectors), and, when his opponents are deep stacked and appear to have a marginal hand (like a medium pair, or a a draw that doesn't have any showdown value if the draw bricks out), he fires a lot of bets at them," then you've probably picked up some good lessons.

Now, obviously lots of small stakes games don't meet this conditions, mainly because short buy ins and large preflop raise sizes make effective stacks even shallower, but there are also games where this style can be effective.

If you're buying in short, you shouldn't be playing many speculative hands. Get sooted connectors and low pockets out of your range except when you're on the cutoff or button. Play your premiums very aggressively and bet for value.

If you tighten up, good things will happen. One of the best things will be that you'll get a sense of game flow without costing yourself much money. As your skill and bankroll grow, you'll be able to buy in deeper and add some creativity and flexibility to your game.

Yep, it's worlds apart from online!

Ya, I really have been only playing these hands in the co and btn I just need to work on my patience due to playing less hands as appose to online but I'll try to tighten up even more.

Great thread! Thanks for the advice

LHE is awesome. It's not that hard to learn to play fairly well, and it's full of fish. I'm not that good and I've won over $150k the last 3 years playing live LHE. It's more showdown bound than NL, but I steal plenty of pots by bluffing in the right spots.

If you understand a game you understand where the edges are, and if you understand that you can like almost any game, you can game select spots where you have big edges, etc. Another poster made a comment about O8 being similar to watching paint dry, but I've played 75/150 08 games where your jaw would drop seeing the hands players open with, and call raises with, and see showdown with. Some are just handing you $25 in EV every hand they play.

Where my game is weakest is NL, so I came across this thread, and was excited and intrigued because it seem to better define some thoughts I had about my occasional forays into low limit NL. So yesterday I put it to use in my local 2/3 game.

My first hand I open 34o from the CO for $10, button flats. Flop AQ4r, I bet $15, he calls. Turn is 7r, check-check. River 5s, I miscount trying to bet pot and bet $85. He snap calls with AQ.

Two hands later I raise AJo to $10. Same guy flats. Flop J74r, I bet $15, he calls. Turn 4d, I bet $30, he calls. River Qd, I check, he fires $35, I call. He announces Ace high.

So while I started nice, I probably misapplied this advice multiple times. The game had too many short stacks, and I tried to bully in inappropriate spots. I only ended up winning $41 in my hour. As some of the posters on the thread said, it's a tool in your arsenal, a really fun one, but you can only apply it if the stacks involved in the hand are appropriately sized, and unfortunately in my local games that's infrequent.

Thanks to Riverman for sharing.

Power Poker: Aggressive, Fearless and Laser Focus.

Short stacks don't mean anything. They actually help. You have more FE with shorter stacks. You need analyze board texture, range and pay attention to every little detail.

Oops, first hand board should have been AQ275, obv. I made a straight and he paid off with slow player Aces up.

I did play pretty poorly in spots, but not that poorly!