Ok, gonna post my personal experience, been struggling in my game because i was labeled uber nit, i'm the only one at the table who will fold to a 3bet!
Anyway, starting playing several hands I would usually muck pre, raising at the CO and BTN, i basically owned those two positions, others started fearing my BTN, I dont get 3bet light anymore (well at least for that session), most of the regs noticed my game has changed, value betting the river with bottom two, just because they r used to me checking scared of the flush...
Definitely helped my game, not that I was playing wrong, but i needed the change for meta-game reasons!
Thanks and cheers!

Slam ****ing dunk, man. I can't wait to tell my wife someone smart said this, lol.

Or...... http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/201...ski/index.html

That story can't be real. Lmao, playing football like that should never work vs d1 competition.


I guess in 4A any strategy will work.

Split's heat map was constructed for online play. The reason the SB is so high is that so many hands online fold to the button or the small blind that small blind vpip/pfr wind up looking very similar to button ranges. Just as a for instance, online, my attempt to steal from the button is 52% and from the small blind it is 57% My VPIP/PFR from the button is 31/23, and from the small blind it is 22/14.

Similarly, because FE goes up when facing a 35-50% button range (standard Tag online), 3 betting stats online look ridiculously high from the blinds to a live player. It's pretty routine to wind up 3 betting 10 or 12% of steal attempts, and 7 or 8% of hands overall. My BB vpip/pfr is 12/7, whereas my UTG range is 7/7.

Bottom line is that for online play, split's heat map is dead on accurate. It would require some revision for live play, but, really, not all that much.

___________________

Enjoyed reading the thread; particularly the posts by Sabr42 and Grunch, which I thought were terrific.

Last time i was in vegas there was this 25yr kid who did exactly what the OP is talking about, he played a sick sick game. 1-2 btw.

He racked up over 5k at the end of a 8 hr session, i pretty much broke even with him.

Its amazing how people will check call 2/3 of thier stack and then when the kid shoves the scare card they fold the river. And the kid shows a total air ball, over and over.

Sickest player ive ever seen, he was treating the table like a play money table, only people are "scared money" so it works extremley well.

I find this misleading. At these stakes getting villains to fold just doesnt seem profitable. Ive had a 4 buyin downswing over the last 30 hours of live 2-5 play. I use a similar style to op, punishing limpers in position, etc. if you hit flops, you crush games, because people will look you up on later streets because of your loose image preflop. However, if you airball a bunch and barrel, generally speaking it is costly. I know there are better spots than others to do this and everything is situation specific, but i am trying to be general for the sake of brevity here. I disagree with your "scared money" theory. If you are a real player looking to beat recreational players, my experience is that they are not there to fold hands to guys like us. They will call, lose, and go play blackjack, or they will hero call to feel the glory of snapping off a reg. my two cents. I may adjust and barrel less on when imhave complete air against certain players, i think it will help my winrate. I may just be runnng bad too.i will say, when you hit flops, and are aggressive, you can really crush these stakes. Sets are nice.

lol, wtf....

@Jdoury Your thinking is a little outdated. You can get players to fold you just have to know when. If your playing fit/fold may the best hand win then your not playing aggressive.

I think this is a great thread.

Any good poker player should have the LAG tool in their shed.

You really have do have to know when to bring it out and when to put it away though....

In December, the first month I tried to play poker for a living, I was playing what I thought was LAG at $2/$5 and made 6k. The next month I went to Las Vegas, played the same way and was quickly down a little over 4k in a week. Thankfully, I was posting trip updates+hand histories in the Las Vegas Lifestyles forum and some of the successful players here talked me into playing a TAG style because I don't have the skill set to play full time LAG. I also decided to scale down back to $1/$2 for a bit. I am now up 3k for the month of Feb, playing ABC/TAG most the time.

I think OP is right, you definitely don't want a skilled LAG at your table. You'd much rather have a nit, a drunk, a maniac, or an unskilled LAG.

At this point, I am still playing ABC/TAG, but slowly starting to play some LAG on the CO or Button. I am only trying steal moves on the blinds a couple times a session. I definitely want to get to the point where I am a great LAG player, but it's going to take time and patience for that skillset to fully evolve.

Judging by what I've seen in the last month at $1/$2, it seems LAG would be more profitable in day time hours, TAG more profitable at night.

I think BIGGEST BENEFIT is all the free cards you get when the NIT LIMPS in from near UTG and you don't raise or when you get 4 callers to your $15.00 raise, flop a draw, and the morons who have top pair, two pair, or even a set check it to you and you get the free turn card.... when playing LAG.. and you hit this turn... the people who "checked to the raiser" can never get away from the hand and you stack em...

Good luck to all that try to employ this strategy in their game....

Have fun chuckling at all the people who complain about how bad you are when you crack them...lol

If ppl don't start peeling you with middle pair,
you are giving up a ton of value. (because you are a rock).

It's relatively easy to train them to start calling you down extremely light (without risking a lot. if you can break even on your light openings IP, it is hugely profitable, DUCY?) like this if...>>>
1] they are paying attention, and are capable of making the desired adjustment (some ABC donks are not, be careful)
2] they arent capable of playing back at you.
3] but, if they are droolers who arent folding any pair, or gutter to anyone, dont waste your time and effort lagging it up. just do business as usual without paying the tariffs.
use your imagination. (you dont even have to lag it up as much as just not be a rock.)

Great thread. Learning a lot. For those like myself, who are trying to transition into more of a LAG style, this is great info.

Yea, but you havent seen the sessions where he loses 7-10 BI's though. He probably doesnt make much more than your normal player who crushes 1/2, he just has a style associated with MUCH higher variance and swings.

Obv on the last 3.

And being at a table with 9 skilled LAGs will be awful unless you're short stacking (then you just LOL at them).

But a table with 1 skilled LAG, 4 nits and 4 loose passive players is going to be a table where you replace that LAG with another nit or loose passive player.

It's not that you're excited to play against the LAG, it's that the LAG puts all those other players on tilt and you get to take advantage of that.

But obviously a bad LAG would be way preferable. Or a maniac. Or a drunk. Can't always find those though.

TAG/LAG they can both crush the game. The key being aggressive postflop and not giving up on pots. When you have that mentality your becoming a kiler at the tables.

Sry if this post has been discussed.

1. Find a better game. Most games I play in on a Friday or Saturday night have like 3-4 stacks 400-600bb's

2. Op is not advocating (all of a sudden playing 65% of hands because we have chips). He is simply stating that calling a stiffs ep raise for like 2% of our stack (he is tight, rated to have a premium) why not take a shot in position. To make a big score. Because you will stack them when you hit. Now your the donk who won a 1k pot with 84s (we could all agree this would benefit our image)

OP great thread. Thanks for the contribution. Your spot on, ABC will get the money ($12-15hr). However if you want to truly crush ($25hr) you have to lag it up. If you want to become a supreme donkey crusher you can't be a nit. And as we know position position position. I can't count all the pots I've one on the river with air, because my opponent has all but shouted "take this pot"

You think LAGs can beat 1/2 for $25? I question that.

Do you really think it's better to keep hammering at pots on the turn/river with AIR when a nit, donk, or maniac has called your bets?

How often is a person going to not call turn/river who has called the flop? Most the times if they are calling the flop, they are going to PLAY SHERIFF. Which is what you want if you have a monster hand, draw, or top pair/top kick and your strategy is working and they are calling you with 2nd pair...


BUT, I think it's best to SHUT IT DOWN on turn/river if you have AIR in most cases if people in the pot have called you.

What do all of you think that are contributing in this thread?

I am asking this because I am sponging information at the moment and want to hear all of your opinions.

Let me elaborate, he didnt raise pre that much, but he did play extremley well post flop. He would build the pot up and take it away on later streets by putting people in tough spots where people would have good hands but couldnt call his bets with 4 others left to act.

What you fail to realize is that he did make hands, just as much as anyone else, however he gets max value out of them because of his image. What good is a hand if you dont get paid right?

Basically dont try this method unless you are very skilled and arent afraid to pull the trigger.

actually the river can be the best spot to get someone off a middeish/ 1 pair hand, because now look at all the hands that now beat you.

Nobodys folding A7 on a 337 board, but when it runs out a 3 flush 337k8 it becomes profitable.

the key is not to gamble, but to play calculated and aggressive, sizing you bets accordingly.

Also my question/thought

Scenario/Question for all of you contributing....

What are we doing in situations like this.....

You're on the button with 10/8 suited, 4 limpers, you pop it to $15.00.

2 callers, 1 is just the average "there to gamble guy." The other is the one guy who has read super system and has to have poker commentary after every hand he's played asking "if I go all in on flop, you call?" or..."if I 3 bet there, you come back over the top all in?"

Flop comes 10 4 6, checked to you.

You bet $25.00, there to gamble guy calls, turn card is a 2, also a diamond draw out there now.....

Checked to you again....

What now?

You firing again with top pair/8 kicker or checking?

Lets say you check, Ace of hearts hits river, the guy bets out $50.00 at you...
You folding? You calling?

Lets say you check, a diamond hits river, guy bets $50.00 out at you...
You folding? Calling?

Lets say you check, and another 4 hits river...
He bets out $50.00,

You folding Calling?

Now lets say you bet $50.00 on turn with top pair/8 kicker, he calls....

Go through the same scenarios above and answer....


(I was in a hand like this last night, I bet the turn, an Ace of diamonds hit the river, I folded to the guys $50.00 bet.)

If you're playing in a game where most players are "playing sheriff", you're playing in a dream game. Sure, adjust for that and don't bluff. But it's not normal.

Playing abc is fine. Its just something I'm not doing when most weak players 90% of our opponents c/c flop and fold turn.

Its all villain dependent board texture and what lines villain's take.

Most people here advocate never firing 3barrels vs a nit. When the time is correct it can be applied when you are the pfr.

Here is my last 3barrel pot.


Hero has A K in the sb, everyone limps nit bb calls my 25$ bet in a 1/3 game.

Flop J 8x 4

Hero bets 40$, nit calls.

Turn 6

Hero bets 60, nit calls

River 9. Hero say "**** in his head" if I check I lose the pot. Hero bets 20$, nit folds lmao.

I just don't see hammering pots on every street with AIR being +EV over the course of the long haul at $1/$2. At least 2-3 guys at every $1/$2 table are there to "CALL THAT LITTLE PUNK" making all the raises.

No problem hammering it if you have great draws though....