Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Hero call with two pair Hero call with two pair

01-21-2017 , 09:03 AM
Prehand description
Villain is my friend, with whom I've been playing for a while. He's an overall decent player, but way too tight preflop for my taste. And he has problems folding his big hole cards when necessary. In this game, until this point, he was down a few dollars and hasn't won a pot in a while.

$0.25/0.50 NL (4 handed)
UTG ($?)
Button Villain ($50)
SB ($?)
BB Hero ($120)

Hero is dealt T9

1 fold, Villain raises to $1.50, 1 fold, Hero calls

(I guess a 3bet wouldn't be a bad play, but as I said - he was very tight pre, and what would I do against a 4bet?)

Flop ($3.25) T96
Hero bets $2, Villain calls

(Of course a check would be better, I don't really know why I bet.)

Turn ($7.25) 8
Hero bets $4, Villain raises to $12, Hero calls

(I'll get to that in a second.)

River ($23.25) 5
Hero checks, Villain bets $20, Hero calls

So after a long tank I called. I figured he has almost no 7's in his range here. He tends to limp small pocket pairs, 77 included, preflop. Same for 87s, 76s. Yes, even in a 4-handed game. I told you he's tight. The only hand containing a seven that he would raise preflop is A7s. So i figured he has something like ATs that he turned into a bluff, or maybe some worse two pair. And also I found his sizing on the river suspicious. He usually bets like half pot for his value bets.

What do you think about my line?
Hero call with two pair Quote
01-21-2017 , 09:07 AM
"Villain is my friend, with whom I've been playing for a while. He's an overall decent player, but way too tight preflop for my taste. And he has problems folding his big hole cards when necessary. "

Fold turn. Until they make you play back. Turn is a check.

Also why are you donking out?
Hero call with two pair Quote
01-21-2017 , 09:25 AM
Cannot he have 16x QJ? Looks like fold otr.
Hero call with two pair Quote
01-21-2017 , 09:26 AM
Like I said, I don't really know why I donked, I know it was bad play.

As for the turn raise call, I figured he has mostly broadway cards in his range and overpairs. Yes, he also has 88, 99 and TT, but I block most of these. A turn raise looks very bluffy to me, as he usually plays his value hands more passively, until the river.
Hero call with two pair Quote
01-21-2017 , 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maka2020
Prehand description

Hero bets $4, Villain raises to $12, Hero calls

What do you think about my line?
You have to be able to avoid paying opponents off when they hit a draw. Paying off his successful draw is what provides the villain with the IO to chase you in the first place.

Usually, when someone bets or raises on the turn, it indicates a very strong hand.

I would have folded the turn.

I'm also not crazy about calling with T9s in the BB. I would prefer to play this hand in position.
Hero call with two pair Quote
01-21-2017 , 10:01 AM
It's a call pre-flop if you're not bad. I don't think OP should be calling T9s until he fixes big post-flop leaks
Hero call with two pair Quote
01-21-2017 , 04:21 PM
What are those leaks? Could you at least point me in the right direction? (Aside from this flop bet, I would never do this again.)

It turned out my reads were correct - he rolled over AA.
Hero call with two pair Quote
01-21-2017 , 04:33 PM
Nice results
Hero call with two pair Quote
01-21-2017 , 04:36 PM
I'm not saying I played this perfectly because this time I won the pot. I just don't see gaps in my reasoning. I would be very glad if you could point out mistakes in my (surely flawed) hand reading from the first post.
Hero call with two pair Quote
01-21-2017 , 04:42 PM
you posted results way too fast.

you seem to know villain well. you say he is "too tight preflop" and "has trouble folding big hole cards."

what hands is he raising pre flop; calling flop with and raising turn with that beat you? you block TT/99. I am 100% jamming this river given descriptions - by my account he only has about $15 behind and given your description, we can get called pretty much by all his overpairs, which he is very likely to have.
Hero call with two pair Quote
01-21-2017 , 04:46 PM
Did not look at your line of thinking. Honestly vs this V, I'd rather have a c/r range than a lead range. But honestly if he's going to play the overpair this bad, I might include more leads.

The leak was the lead, that's what you need to fix, if you're positive on your reads/range, then onto the next decisions . (I did not put any thought behind your range prior because the donk)

Realistically if he has 99+ A7s/QJ you're like 42% equity vs that range so you're forced to call turn and forced to call river pending a J/Q does not roll off, then you'll have to evaluate the sizing of the bet.
Hero call with two pair Quote
01-21-2017 , 05:57 PM
I like flop donk

Man your friend clicks some serious buttons
Hero call with two pair Quote
01-21-2017 , 05:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avaritia
I like flop donk

Man your friend clicks some serious buttons
Probably have to lead vs this guy, not only from this hand, but his tendencies to be rather nitty. Flop hits his range for calls KQ/QJ, so thinking back, let's just donk this board.

all overpairs come along, kind of butthurt he did not raise flop. Turn was odd

get em op, don't listen to me, im drunk (not really, but should be for that advice)
Hero call with two pair Quote
01-21-2017 , 06:29 PM
Wow, I really though that donk was bad. Actually, I though that donking flop as the preflop caller is always bad.
Hero call with two pair Quote
01-21-2017 , 09:24 PM
Donk is bad.

Why donk and get him to fold his over cards?

Let him cbet his entire range. Either raise flop or turn.

Donking in general leaves you very vulnerable, in HU pots.

Because hard to balance and very hard to have strong checking range then. And you end up getting murdered by button clickers (like your friend).

As your check folding most flips then.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk
Hero call with two pair Quote
01-22-2017 , 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by maka2020
Wow, I really though that donk was bad. Actually, I though that donking flop as the preflop caller is always bad.
There are certain times when donking is good and one of the main times is when you smash a flop on a wet texture.

So another example is 568 where there were a few limps preflop, button raised, you called BB with 66, limpers called.

The reason why donking this flop is good is because it's actually a flop that will get checked through a lot. Button isn't just auto cbetting into 4 people here with AJ or whatever and then flop checks through and you have a few problems.

Problem #1: pots build exponentially on themselves and you just missed the first layer of the pyramid
Problem #2: a lot of disaster cards can fall ott

The other neat thing about donking in my example is you create dead money between you and the pfr.

Don't just start auto donking now. I see some players donk 77 on K72r thinking they're being fancy or whatever when really they are just missing so much value.

Also, in live poker people cbet too much as a main leak. So even on 567 people are cbetting AK sometimes, so you don't always have to donk in these situations, just know that it's never bad to ensure money goes in on a wet board when you hold the effective nuts.
Hero call with two pair Quote

      
m