Any thoughts?

2-5 NLHE, full ring.

Hero: $1500 UTG Q10
Villian: $500 (new player, 3rd hand) BTN AA


Preflop:
Everyone limps, BTN bets $35, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop:
AJ8

BB: Check
Hero: Check
Villian: $50
Hero: Raise to $140
Villian: Calls
BB: Folds

*** HEADS UP ***

Turn:
4

Hero: Check
Villian: Bets $190
Hero: tanks a little, calls

River:
4

Hero: Check
Villian: Bets $75
Hero: smiles, pays to see Villian's cards

I played this really bad? I wanted to insta-fold on the Turn. How would you play this? Would you play this?

Thanks

I play it same. River call is fine, he could have T9. Live players are always so agro!

Hello, what are your thoughts?

Answer the questions below and you will hopefully figure out why this hand was played horribly and why the rest of the table most likely think of you as a weak player.


Why are you limping in?

Why are you check raising the flop?

Why are you check calling the turn?

Why are you paying to see his cards when there is ZERO chance that you are going to win?

Pay attention to stack sizes, your position and what you are representing with your plays.

UTG this hand is a fold. You have to hit a miracle flop to feel comfortable playing this hand OOP. After a new player raises the button and BB calls it is 100% a fold.

The flop smacks V's range pretty hard, so I don't like trying to bluff here. I guess you would get KK and QQ to fold but those are only a small part of his range and I don't think AK, AQ, or AJ are ever folding here.

On the turn you're getting 3:1 if I'm adding correctly, and you're 2.5:1 to hit either a straight or flush on the river so I think this is a call. Either draw you hit should be fairly well disguised, so it shouldn't be too hard to get value on the river if you hit. Also all you're draws are essentially to the nuts which is a HUGE plus.

On the river I think this is a c/f 100%. I don't mind paying for information when I know I'm beat as long as I'm getting a good price on that information. That said I'm probably not paying more than $20-25 because its unlikely having the information will increase my equity later by more than that much (and probably not even $20 worth).

I dont understand the river call

Quote of deleted post

This thread/post is a great and helpful post because it highlights several common mistakes LLSNL players make.

#1 hand selection vs position. QTs is an okay limping hand in EP if and only if
a) we are at a passive limpy table in which we gets lots of cheap multiway action.
b) players and table is relatively deep.
c) we have a good image and a good read on villains and table dynamics
d) there are a couple off deep stack stations/spewtards that stack off ridiculously light that we targeting.


#2 understanding the concept of ranging. Hero makes a HUGE mistake in this regard. Imo, on the flop Hero is playing level 1 poker with no regard for Villains' respective ranges. This board smacks the ranges of the pre flop raiser as well as the calling ranges of the other villains. Given that LLSNL can't fold Ax in this spot if their lives depending on it, hero's raise is spewy

#3 understanding implied odds and recognizing when implied odds is more important than direct odds. This is one of the biggest leaks in LLSNL. Over the years the poker community has beat the drum about the importance of aggression to the point where players are aggressive without understanding why. As a consequence, they make mistakes in regards to properly using implied odds and recognizing situations in which being passive and drawing is the optimal play.

#4 understanding the concept of pot control and pot commitment. This is another huge leak in LLSNL. OP's flop raise completely loses any pot control and destroys his implied odds.

#5 level 0 river calls. Calling river in this spot for information is retarded. I'd rather OP bluff shove for stacks vs lighting $75 on fire. Based on the way OP played this hand, he doesn't need to pay for information because he lacks the skillset to use that information for advanced plays. OP would be better served just playing ABC poker until he gets a firm grasp on the fundamentals.

In any event, this is a very helpful thread for those starting out and I applaud OP for having the courage to post a mistake.

Fold hand preflop because you are OOP and it could be a problem hand, say for example if V has hands like QJ,KQ,AT,AQ,AK, etc.

Pick a better spot because you don't have to win every hand you're involved in.

Just play fundamentally sound and you'll crush LLSNL. So play ABC poker because majority of players at this level have tons of leaks and let them make the mistakes.

As played, the flop c/r is ok because you are representing hitting an Ace or a big hand but I think I would opt to either c/f or c/c and take the action to the turn. You don't always have to play your draws so strong and calling to exercise pot control is okay. If the action is taken to the turn, I think leading out or c/r are fine plays. You'll fold out Vs hands that are lower than Ax and if called you still have 12 outs.

The river is a c/f because if V thinks he's good enough to value bet on flop and call turn, then he'll probably call river to and there's no point in bluffing because you'll probably get called down. And you have no history on V because he just sat down so you're not really sure if he's capable of folding.

Pre: I don't really mind limping this hand UTG pre if the table is often just limping around, but you've gotta fold to a 7x raise. Maybe 3bet squeeze sometimes, but usually just fold. I think a 3-4x open is ok too. Just open folding is best in some situations.

Flop: Pretty weird check/raise. He's giving you a good price to draw, and that ace often hits him. So just call. I don't mind leading this flop either, but it definitely sucks when someone raises you.

Turn: After your flop x/r, you should be shoving here 100% of the time when your bdfd comes. If you're going to semi bluff x/r flops, you have to be willing to follow thru on the turn a lot of the time. Any spade is a good time to follow through.

River: No way is he betting $75 here with JT. Check/calling is really bad. Check/fold obviously.

This post is more or less spot on.

If you c/r this flop (lord knows why you would ...) then you absolutely must shove this turn.

I believe strongly that once you commit to a certain plan or line that it is -EV to not follow through. When you c/r this flop you basically are telling AK/AQ that you have 2p or a set. If you look at the size of the pot and your stack size then you are perfectly sized for a shove on turn.

This is exactly what a semibluff is supposed to be. You want to rep a very strong line while simultaneously generating fold equity and having some equity. So if you c/r flop then you simply must shove all spade turns.

Grunching: c/c otr? is this a level account? Why c/r otf and not shove ott when we pick up our fd beats me. I dont even know where to start about your river play.

I think hero smiled and lit 15bbs on fire to see villains cards...curiosity killed the win-rate

Thanks for ALL the responses. Sorry for the late reply...

1. Limping table. Table mostly bets $20-30 OOP anyway. I had a little info on Villian and wanted to see (if he bets) how he played BTN. I had Q 10 UTG so I'll play small bet, fold to big bet. Definitely wanted to playback asap--cards irrelevant (leak?). Too aggressive?

2. Playback with C/R. He bet small. I said I wanted to fold but changed up mid-play (leak) Pot build. Wanted more action. And I got my info.

3. Good question. This is the title of the thread. This is my leak. I wanted to fold easily but still don't know why I called to be honest.

4. My buy-in was $500. Didn't want to all-in, he still had $100 behind I think. I consider every hand a new lesson--especially the ones where you know you played bad of course. I paid for info and (get ready for my main leak) ...with certain players I'll dump for ROI. They think they outplayed you--I'll smile, say "nice hand" and wait for bigger pots (leak?).

I'm not proud of this hand. I'm working hard to plug these leaks! Thanks again 2+2ers and dgiharris!

Thanks jsissy

I would have folded that hand UTG. Q10 isn't a bad hand, but UTG that's hard to justify just because there's so many people to act in front of you.

The flop gives you an open-ended straight, and a tricky one at that in addition to a backdoor flush. So with $105 in the pot, it's worth it to call. But the check-raise is risky because the BTN was the pre-flop raiser and I would say it's safe to at least put him on some sort of an ace with a decent kicker. Only the tightest of players would possibly fold there, and like you said he was a new player so you couldn't possibly have that kind of a read on them.

On the turn, you were still getting well over sufficient pot odds to call. But on the river, his small bet of $75 (especially in comparison to his calling your reraise and turn c-bet) means I would have folded.

If you were looking to give an impression of aggression, I would have followed through on the turn and snap-shoved. You already showed aggression by check-raising, and even though he had aces you didn' tknow that and his button raise makes him most likely having some sort of ace with a range of kickers, anywhere from K to 9. I know he would have called, but you didn't know that and who knows - maybe he'd have folded.

Either way, your largest mistake was calling UTG with that marginal hand.