When I first started playing in 2004 or so I read a TJ Cloutier and Tom McEvoy book on poker. They felt that Hold Em was a TPTK game. I believe that now NL 1/2 is a set miners (or higher) game. I am usually cautious with 1 pair and try to play smaller pots. Is that what you do in terms of strategy or do you still think in terms of TPTK?

At 1/2 doing nothing but set mining can be profitable. Many villains at 1/2 are stationary enough that even if you never show anything but near nut hands they will still stack off with one pair most of the time. Playing a TPTK game is higher variance but more profitable. Because villains will stack off wide but will show up with random two pair garbage. The best plan is too learn which villains you want to put in with TPTK and which you don't. Some villains are stationary enough that they will call huge bets with TPWK and second pair good kicker. Others have enough sense to fold at some point and you want better then one pair to play for stacks.

very good analysis i thank you i've been running into a lot of junk 2 pairs

I believe (and this actually might have come from Mpethy's "famous" database? But I might be wrong about that) that the "average" winning Hold 'Em hand at showdown is 2 pair (despite the fact that it's hard to make a pair in Hold 'Em). Therefore, as QuadJ said, you're gonna want to know your opponent pretty well to stack off with TP.

I think this is pretty gross over simplification here on pretty much all accounts, hold em has never been just about tptk, but players were so bad 12 years ago it didn't matter.... Now to suggest the game is about making sets or better again is a massive over simplification. Sometimes tptk is massive sometimes it's junk, sometimes 2nd set is massive sometimes it's worthless....
Also average winning hand at the river is if I remember correctly 3rd + bottom pair.... But this wasnt based on 'heads up' play....I can't remember the facts and figures behind it.....
Play the game as you find it, not how someone who has never sat at your table, or even in your casino is telling you to play....Everything you ever read about poker should be contextual and situation dependant....some of the west advice found in this forum is from players applying concepts blindly to any situation without looking at context.

Yes, obviously that is a huge simplification. You have to consider other drawing hands beyond sets, what to do with draws on the flop, stack sizes and other considerations. There are times when a set isn't a huge hand on the flop and times when TPTK is fine to move in with.

The basic point still stands. It is often profitable to play only near nut+ hands at 1/2 because villains will still station you off but it isn't optimal. Adjusting to the situation on the fly is the best.

Today, TPTK isn't an automatic bet/bet/bet line hand. If the villain isn't going to call down three bets with worse that TPTK, you're going to have to adjust your strategy. My guess is by your comment is that you are betting hard on the flop and turn and when you get to the river you're playing for the remainder of your stack. When you're putting in your stack, you're often losing to a player with better hand.

The solution is to allow weaker hands to get to the river.

Exactly, TPTK is generally not worth three+ streets of value (usually 2 to 2.5). And playing TPTK to get less streets of value protects your weaker hands from being bluffed out.

TPTK does really well against any stack that's put all in by a flop cbet.

It does okay against any stack that's put all in by a turn cbet.

It's a losing bet against any stack that calls three times without going all-in.

I don't know what kind of 1/2 games you guys play in but most people in my games pot commit themselves when coldcalling preflop raises in my game.

Also insert obligatory "when you play the game of sets, you win or you die" quip here.

The numbers I ran years ago was that TPTK online was good about 60% of the time when going all in on the flop with less than 100 BB.

A big reason for this is that while a draw can call on the flop and turn, it isn't going to on the river. My guess is against made hands on the turn, you're probably behind but you make up much of that by getting the draws missing on the river.

Thinking about anything in absolutes is detrimental to your game.

No way TJ would tell you that NL is a TPTK game. It never was. The average winning hand in poker is 2P. This is the minimum and if you got an aggressive table with deep stacks, not even any 2P but the T2P+. If you flop TPTK and have lots of stacks behind what you going to do on one pair? Get involved deeper into the game? Who's gonna give you action in TP? .., oh, I know what you gonna say: Well maybe another weaker TP or a middle pair .., wtf?
But that's not gonna happen. What you got here is win a small pot and if you get any substantial action lose some substantial amount of chips.

TJ is a very very extremely thigh solid player and I don't remember reading in any of his books that TPTK is the game. Unless you got TPTK+nut-flush draw but the TPTK has only 5 outs to improve. So, what you got? - Nothing!

AA wins the most pots but not necessarily the most money unless you lure the monkeys to play for stacks preflop.
Middle Sets make the most money for sure. A set one notch under the flopped top card
T2P is a premium hand too
but T2P on a JT6 flop could be nasty. You got to be aware what a flop with JT means.

Big cards are really not such a great hand unless they are suited in aggressive games with big stacks. Because when you are in a game where people are playing wildly, invariably somebody makes a good hand. And your big cards are being played normally only in hopes of making a big pair. Well a TPTK is a good hand in some games but is not such a good hand with deep stacks. So if you have an unsuited hand, even if you flop TPTK, you should be cautious with them. If they are suited, it’s a totally different story because of the possibility of making a flush which can totally swing all of the odds, etc. Of course, there’s plenty of exceptions to anything I say, it depends exactly on the situation, but normally if you have for instance AK and the flop comes a K, T, 7, normally in these wild games you don’t continue for stacks with it just in the hopes of catching an ace. Why? Because that might not win even if you have that goddamned Ace kicker.

TPTK is OK hand for me. I don't mind checking. I don't mind calling with a draw. I don't mind folding the goddamned hand. How do you like that?

the way they act with TPTK often makes me think they have a set

i try for 2 streets of value with top pair i never try to play for stacks.

yes i believe it was in this book https://www.amazon.com/Trademark-Glo.../dp/158042127X

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

No.

The average winning hand in a poker sim is 2P.

The average winning hand at a real poker table is worse, because people fold 72o before the KQJ-7-2 board and AK holds up. Plus, in a community card game, AK on a K83-2-2 is TPTK, not "two pair."

If you're the last preflop aggressor, and flop TPTK, I will make a sweeping, absolute declaration that you have enough equity to cbet (whether you actually do or not may vary with how you construct your ranges). There are probably some exceptions, but that sweeping, absolute declaration is closer to correct than "I should see."

Read the again,

Yes, that the but he's not recommending anywhere that TPTK is the name of the game or to put much consideration with that hand. It's an OK hand but nothing more beyond small pots.

i read two of them by the duo and yes he and/or McEvoy said in there it was a TPTK game. No, i won't be reading them again. One time was enough lol

I play in a room where I will stack off with TPTK easily.

I can also make a 2 hours drive to another room and if I get called OTF with TPTK in that room I'm almost check folding OTT everytime. Needless to say I dont go there often.

It depends...

yeah and often in my room third or fourth pair wins, it's pretty ridiculous but they call down by thinking everyone has AK

only a Sith deals in absolutes.

Not sure if my plays are good, but this logic is what made me start checking almost my entire range oop/ep regardless of preflop action. It makes playing 99-jj or other various middle-pairs easier if top pair is in your check range. If I bet from oop Postflop I either have a very strong hand or a combo draw of some kind.

So, which is it?