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Old 07-24-2012, 10:03 PM   #46
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Re: Folding KK Preflop twice in 1 hour?

Hand 1 I'm definitely getting it ai otf. Not even close.

Hand 2 I feel worse about but I can't fold after committing nearly half my stack on the 3bet.

What are you waiting for? Someone to do make the same moves when you have AA or just blind down and open shove 1010 AQs+?
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Old 07-24-2012, 10:09 PM   #47
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Re: Folding KK Preflop twice in 1 hour?

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Originally Posted by PayOffWizard1987 View Post
No you idiot I play LAG. Making a big laydown does not make someone a nit.

Good job going 2 months back and finding this thread only to make that statement, cool life.
Sounds like somebody struck a nerve. I do not think that reply is constructive OP.
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Old 07-24-2012, 11:21 PM   #48
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Re: Folding KK Preflop twice in 1 hour?

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Originally Posted by PayOffWizard1987 View Post
No you idiot I play LAG. Making a big laydown does not make someone a nit.

Good job going 2 months back and finding this thread only to make that statement, cool life.

If you are anything like LAG, how come every post of yours is you wanting to fold a near nut hand? Almost every post is you wanting to fold something thats close to the nuts.


Whats funny is if you are LAG, then how can you possibily lay these hands down when your image is LAG. Oh thats right, its because you play somewhat TAGish at best but call yourself a LAG.


You folding nut flushes and smaller boats for crying outloud. And folding KK preflop as well when your SUPPOSED IMAGE IS LAG. Does anyone else find this pretty funny.


I never seen you even post much hands where you raise a weak hand. Its almost always a premium hand. Surely you have more questions to ask about hands with those weak hands as oppose to premiums right?? Oh wait, there isn't much because you play no where near to LAG. Judging by your posts, you have monsters under the bed syndrome. You keep saying how your opponent is so tight etc when you are probably as tight as him.
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Old 07-25-2012, 02:29 AM   #49
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Re: Folding KK Preflop twice in 1 hour?

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Originally Posted by jonnytone View Post
I thought the same thing. This is a dumb thread. Until I saw a player lay down KK face up preflop twice in one hour yesterday. The first time player made it $35, nit villain raised to $450. Second time player made it $35, villian2 (who saw hand one) made it $70. Both villains showed AA.

I agree with the first fold. The second fold I think I am at least calling the min raise to see a flop, but probably jamming.

This happened at the Horseshoe Hammond also. Wonder if it's the same player.
remind me NEVER to play at the Horseshoe Hammond.
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:30 AM   #50
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remind me NEVER to play at the Horseshoe Hammond.
Seems to me nothing but pros at the Horseshoe, wherever the hell that is.

Didnt read but never folding KK with less than 100 bb behind.
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Old 07-25-2012, 04:56 AM   #51
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Re: Folding KK Preflop twice in 1 hour?

Live 1-2 i like both folds with these reads.
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Old 07-25-2012, 05:47 AM   #52
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Re: Folding KK Preflop twice in 1 hour?

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Live 1-2 i like both folds with these reads.
+1.

Reading this thread reminds me how bad a lot of you are. Do you guys even play live Poker?
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:27 AM   #53
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Re: Folding KK Preflop twice in 1 hour?

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Originally Posted by dhcg86 View Post
don't over think it, just do it.

raise/folding KK is fairly criminal
Isn't our job as would-be expert players to maximize EV based on available info in every situation, not just come up with quick heuristics? There are live players who are never taking a certain line without AA. Hand 2 sounds like that; Hand 1, possibly, but probably not, depending on our read of the 4bettor.

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Originally Posted by jonnytone View Post
I thought the same thing. This is a dumb thread. Until I saw a player lay down KK face up preflop twice in one hour yesterday.
Why would you show everyone you're capable of laying down a second-nut hand?

Actually there are two reasons you might. One is that you value the acclaim from your opponents more highly than the cash EV that results from them not knowing that you can fold the 2nd nuts. That's fine. The other is that you are acting based on emotion (pride) and haven't thought it through. Don't fold face up for the second reason.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:32 AM   #54
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Re: Folding KK Preflop twice in 1 hour?

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Originally Posted by wombat4hire View Post
What are you waiting for? Someone to do make the same moves when you have AA or just blind down and open shove 1010 AQs+?
A good hand and any of the thousands of other combinations of Villains and lines that don't scream AA would be just fine, thanks. This isn't a freezeout.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:33 AM   #55
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Re: Folding KK Preflop twice in 1 hour?

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Originally Posted by playertee View Post
Grinch, hand 2 if u put in one third of yr stack, folding is not good IMO
The 1/3 rule is a good heuristic.... except against opponents whose preflop activity narrows them to a range leaving us 18% equity.

Incidentally, the term you're looking for is Grunch (named for a 2+2 user).

Last edited by AKQJ10; 07-25-2012 at 06:40 AM.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:37 AM   #56
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Re: Folding KK Preflop twice in 1 hour?

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Originally Posted by PayOffWizard1987 View Post
No you idiot I play LAG. Making a big laydown does not make someone a nit.

Good job going 2 months back and finding this thread only to make that statement, cool life.
Figuring out why this "accusation" bothers you to the point of calling another poster an idiot is probably a step toward fixing an acute psychological leak. Actually, that leak is probably 10x more costly than misplaying KK on rare occasions when the action is strongly suggestive of AA and no other hands.

(Not that I disagree with you; LAG and calling station aren't the same thing. But you're clearly taking this point personally, which makes me wonder if you also alter your play out of fear of being called a nit or because LAG seems like a cooler image or whatever.)
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:44 AM   #57
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Re: Folding KK Preflop twice in 1 hour?

Based on your information, both folds seem okay, hand2 a little more than hand1. I would advise that you play 2/5 in Hammond, I find it to be softer than the 1/2 on most of the time, but I only play there on weekends.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:44 PM   #58
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Re: Folding KK Preflop twice in 1 hour?

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Originally Posted by AKQJ10 View Post
Isn't our job as would-be expert players to maximize EV based on available info in every situation, not just come up with quick heuristics? There are live players who are never taking a certain line without AA. Hand 2 sounds like that; Hand 1, possibly, but probably not, depending on our read of the 4bettor.



Why would you show everyone you're capable of laying down a second-nut hand?

Actually there are two reasons you might. One is that you value the acclaim from your opponents more highly than the cash EV that results from them not knowing that you can fold the 2nd nuts. That's fine. The other is that you are acting based on emotion (pride) and haven't thought it through. Don't fold face up for the second reason.

Whats funny is not the fact that he laid it down Funny part is the villain didn't even show the hand to him. What is even more funny is he says both times he folded villain didn't show. Umm.... you expect villain to show and you give you information? I bet you wouldn't even show him your cards if the situation was reversed. I mean, look at you. You make posts like how you want to intentionally put regulars on tilt. No WONDER NO ONE LIKES YOU KID. You think they would actually show to a selfish kid like you? You must been pissed off they didn't show but hey weak tight nits like you deserve it.

Last edited by Dans01020; 07-25-2012 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 07-25-2012, 12:48 PM   #59
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Re: Folding KK Preflop twice in 1 hour?

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Originally Posted by AKQJ10 View Post
Figuring out why this "accusation" bothers you to the point of calling another poster an idiot is probably a step toward fixing an acute psychological leak. Actually, that leak is probably 10x more costly than misplaying KK on rare occasions when the action is strongly suggestive of AA and no other hands.

(Not that I disagree with you; LAG and calling station aren't the same thing. But you're clearly taking this point personally, which makes me wonder if you also alter your play out of fear of being called a nit or because LAG seems like a cooler image or whatever.)

When you see him make that comment, its obvious he is scared money/nit. He says he is LAG but this guy keeps posting threads about hands where he questions if its a fold or not with the NEAR NUTS. Do LAGS post hands like this? He never even posted any hands where he had a weaker hand like top pair medium kicker or medium pair. I mean... wouldn't lags encounter these situations MUCH MORE than the near nuts everytime? Surely he would have more questions to ask when he has a weaker holder like medium pair right if he plays LAG as so he says?


He is insecure that i called him a nit so he says NO YOU IDIOT I PLAY LAG when is nothing more than a weak tight nit.
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Old 07-25-2012, 01:04 PM   #60
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Re: Folding KK Preflop twice in 1 hour?

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Originally Posted by jonnytone View Post
I thought the same thing. This is a dumb thread. Until I saw a player lay down KK face up preflop twice in one hour yesterday. The first time player made it $35, nit villain raised to $450. Second time player made it $35, villian2 (who saw hand one) made it $70. Both villains showed AA.

I agree with the first fold. The second fold I think I am at least calling the min raise to see a flop, but probably jamming.

This happened at the Horseshoe Hammond also. Wonder if it's the same player.

Was the villain a young kid? If so, its him
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