Yeah both are folds. I'd probably say **** it and go home after hand 2.

You're better then me, I would call both hands.

I get that, but its not about Hero, its about the old nit. ANd when the nit shoved, there were still other players behind right?

and nit psychology is such that he just isn't 4bet shoving $600 deep w QQ/AK ever under any circumstance. PERIOD.

I think that is the point of disaggreeance for me at least. In my definition of "old nit" they just are NEVER 4bet shoving 100bb+ w QQ/AK under any circumstance.

To me, that's like saying a Vegetarian will occassionally eat a steak.

first one I would shove

I would give him qq+ ak maybe even aq

shove and paray

Yeah, I think if the read is 100% accurate than maybe hand 2 is a fold. But I make the math on this to be about $300 in the pot vs. $125 for hero to call. But if AKs and QQ (or the other KK) are in the villain's range here, it's an easy, easy call. If you make his range 75% AA and 12.5% AKs and 12.5% QQ, it's a call.

Hand 1 is tough. To me, it's a shove or fold since here will have only $110 behind with a pot of $200 on the flop. I'd have to ask myself if V2 will four bet me with JJ/QQ/AKs/AK here as well as AA. I think he likely would do this with AK, and maybe QQ. So again, I think I shove over the top. A fold also works, though. If this happens often, I think you may be misreading the real ranges for the "nit" and maybe "V2" as well. It's rare to see people who play this consistently all the time preflop. I'm constantly surprised by what I see solid players show down.

i just read both of your threads about folding some absurd hand. You are a horrible cash game player, just being honest. I play at the horseshoe as well. To be honest with you, you would make a perfect tournament player. Your type of playing style plays great in live tournaments, I am willing to stake you in a couple tournies, PM if your interested.

Not seen the spoiler yet:

"Hand #1: Preflop: V1 opens for $10 UTG, Hero raises to $35 with KK, V2 4-bets to $90, V1 folds, Hero?"

This situation is borderline, and is quite dependent on how you read V2. If your old nit ranges as tight as AA, KK, QQ for an UTG raise, and V2 knows that you know that, and he knows you know he knows, then it's a re-raise. That V2 has limited his 4-bet suggests he doesn't want to commit here in case he needs to get away from a re-raise.

If you don't think he'd play that way, then folding is probably a good idea here.

Hand 2 is an automuck, unless your read on V1 is just horribly off. Nits simply will not commit pre like that without two aces. Not. Gonna. Happen. Besides, they often shove with pocket aces since they remember all those times they started with pocket aces and got them beat. It would also be rare if your old nit could shove like that as a pure bluff. That's another mistake they make: not exploiting their tight-as-hell table images, not even occasionally.

condolence high five?

I am not folding KK for 100bb in either spot.
Hand 1 you would have to be sure of what V2 thinks about V1. Are you sure he knows he only raises with QQ+ or does he just know he only 3bets KK+?

Hand 2 already a third of your stack has gone in plus there is $40 dead money. If he has AA 100% of the time, calling is only a $40 mistake. Does anyone else have $600? If so, then I am ok with a fold.

99% AA 1% KK IMO.

Hand one easy fold as nit had other kings. Lol

Seriously, hand 2 easy fold. Hand 1 I think I call against thinking player for 100bb.

Hand 1. Good fold. You have to be beat.
Hand 2. I've been in this spot on 2/4, folded the kings and got shown a Queen. I wouldn't do it again, except in this spot. This is sick.

Hand one is kind of iffy to me. It's possible that V2 might have just been going for the steal. If he knows that you've got the same read on V1, then he might have just been trying to represent aces he didn't have.

I would want to see a flop on that one.


The second hand was a good read.

Why are we cold 4-betting hand hand 2? Reg 3-better may not pay you off. I would call and see a flop multiway with maybe 1.5x pot behind.