1/2 NL - Horseshoe Hammond

Effective Stacks: I have $200, both villains have me covered.

Villain 1: Super Nit, over-weight old guy in his 60s-70s who literally just sits there all day waiting for the nuts. I've played with him several times and he open limps AK, JJ, TT, only raising with AA-QQ. I think I've narrowed his 3-betting range to AA and KK but I'm not sure.

Villain 2: Solid player, young 1/2 grinder, definitely a winning player. Plays really tight and aggressive, really good at hand reading and usually knows where he is at in a hand.

Hand #1:

Preflop: V1 opens for $10 UTG, Hero raises to $35 with KK, V2 4-bets to $90, V1 folds, Hero?

V2 knows that V1's range is AA, KK, QQ, to open utg. He knows V1 is limping with JJ, TT, AK or worse. V2 also knows that I know V1's range is AA, KK, QQ, so I must have AA or KK in order to 3-bet him, so why is he 4-betting? And why is he betting such a small amount begging to get called? Even tho he is a young creative player, I think he can only have AA in this spot, thoughts?

Hand #2:

V1 is up pretty big, he has over $600 so he's playing even tighter then usual

Preflop: Random guy makes it $7 in EP, MP calls, V2 3bets to $25, Hero 4-bets to $75 with KK, V1 shoves All-In for about $600 in BB. Folds around to Hero...?

I can't believe this is coming out of my mouth but if your reads are spot on I don't mind either fold. What's your stack in hand 2?

damn. those do sound like good folds.

no money in 1/2, everyone is solid???/ move up to where your raises are respected (srsly, KK twice and getting shipped on is LOL)

situation 2 looks like a very good fold, i dont see any other hand for V1 than AA.
situation 1 im not so sure though

why 3 bet hand 1?

Hand 2 is an easy fold...

Hand 1 is a little closer only because, in the year I've played live I have never come across a V2 type of player. Every time I think I have, he turns out to be a bad player running lucky and it costs me money thinking he can play.

But then I play in a casino and I imagine there are poker clubs, where they exist.

Hand 1:
What are V's stacks relative to each other? Also, what would you expect V2 to do with QQ/AK here?

If you're read of V1 is 100% accurate, than he folded QQ to the 4bet, and that means the 4bettor's most likely hand is AA, AK, or Air. There are a few players who I've played against online who I would assign a large % of air in this spot, but even those players are not crazy enough to do it live, at these stakes. Unless you have some sort of horrible image where V2 knows you AND V1 are folding everything but AA here, and he has a blocker... but again, that is some high level poker that is just too rare to worry about. (Is he a Scandi?)


Hand 2:
Is anybody else at the table really deep besides V1? If so, I super turbo muck. Otherwise I bitch/moan/fold then mentally thank V1 for saving me $125.

pretty sick stuff! I think both hands are nice folds.

As previously mentioned, hand 1, UTG raise from Villain 1 has to be a premium, probably QQ, MAYBE AK but I doubt it (most passive-nit-limpers will just limp this hand utg). I really doubt V2 has the balls to 4bet AK in this spot. He has to think his hand is incredibly strong, because a cold $90 4-bet could easily be burning money if UTG villain has KK+

Without looking I push the first but if it read is amazing...hand 2 pot is almost 200 you have 125 left I call

I'm all for folding KK pre flop, but let's not go overboard.
I think hand #1 is a call or 5bet.

I love the 3bet in hand 1, you absolutely have to 3bet that, last thing you want is playing a 5way pot with KK. Plus, you raised $35 which is a raise that TT-QQ, AK, AQ can easily call.

I don't like the first fold. If V2 is a young aggressive winner then he KNOWS that 4bets are viewed as AA/KK so I could see him turning JJ, QQ, AK into a "bluff" because I can see him putting your raise range as JJ-AA, AK. Sure, AA is in his range as well, but I think I call and shove all non Ace flops.

Hand two, yeah, super easy fold imo.

Lastly, there is another dynamic i'd invite you to think about. If you are routinely folding to 4bets then that increases the range at which V's will 4bet you.

This would "only" be applicable to villains that play against you a lot or have been at the same table you've been at where you've folded to 4bets alot.

You're too good!

I don't agree that hand 2 is a super easy fold. What are the images of the guys that made it 7 and 25? Are you 200 deep? Who else is 600 deep at the table...the guy that made it 7 or 25? If I did the math right, you only have to have 28.4% pot equity to be good here (assuming you're $200 deep). Vs a range of just AA/KK, you have 22.5% pot equity. I don't really see why an old nit might not shove QQ/AK here some of the time, if the guy that makes it 25 is at all spazzy, since you might look like a total spaz based on hand 1. I don't know how often they have to show up with AK or QQ for it to be profitable, but I can't imagine it's very high. I go to the casino to gamble. If I get coolered I stick the money in and find out. How much EV are you saving really in hand 1 vs a range of just KK/AA...$6 or 8 or so? I'm never folding KK preflop without being able to see my opponents cards to save 6 or 8 bucks in EV. I'd probably pay 6 or 8 bucks just to see the guys cards to make sure that I made a good fold after the hand, so might as well gamble it up with the 2nd nuts.

That's kinda like saying, "I don't see why a Vegetarian doesn't occassionally enjoy a good steak"...

Old nits are NEVER shoving all-in $600 with QQ/AK ever. If they do, then they simply aren't nits.

I would go on to say that an old nit is rarely if ever 4bet shoving like this with even KK. It is almost exclusively AA. If I had to weight it, I would say, 80% of the time its AA and 20% of the time its KK and that's being generous imo.

Otherwise we have completely different definitions of old nits.

But hero is not $600 deep digi.