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Flopped up and down w/ FD out of position Flopped up and down w/ FD out of position

06-28-2017 , 12:24 AM
Playing $1/2, no strong players at table. Table is Playing fairly loose passive overall. Villain is very average $1/2 player. Clearly has played before but nothing too fancy. Probably a loose version of an ABC $1/2 player.

Effective stacks $300.

2x limps in MP
Villain limps button
Hero completes SB w/5d7d
BB checks

5 ways, Flop Ad4d3h. Pot is $9

Hero leads for $12, fold, fold, fold, button raises to $37. Hero?
Also, does anyone c/c here instead of leading?

Live read is that button feels good. Any AX is possible. Could have 56s, a higher diamond draw, set, but I believe if I raise any normal size raise, up to say $100 or so he's snap calling, maybe raising. I didn't get the impression he was thinking about what I had. Clearly not folding. But stuck a bit on raising or flatting. Clearly have a good amount of equity against AX hands but ultimately have 7 high at this point.

Thoughts?
Flopped up and down w/ FD out of position Quote
06-28-2017 , 02:12 AM
Check. Now call.
Flopped up and down w/ FD out of position Quote
06-28-2017 , 04:09 AM
Don't have a strong opinion about check vs bet. I lean towards bet since we could easily take it down and if we don't, I kind of want to get more money in at neutral equity so that the bets are bigger if we make our hand. Your lead is too big although it doesn't particularly matter.

It's very unlikely button has a strong ace as he'd have raised preflop. I also don't think he'd raise here with 65s. That leaves two pairs, sets, and bigger diamond draws, which is not a range we do brilliantly against. I don't expect to get any folds reraising, so call it is.
Flopped up and down w/ FD out of position Quote
06-28-2017 , 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
Don't have a strong opinion about check vs bet. I lean towards bet since we could easily take it down and if we don't, I kind of want to get more money in at neutral equity so that the bets are bigger if we make our hand. Your lead is too big although it doesn't particularly matter.

It's very unlikely button has a strong ace as he'd have raised preflop. I also don't think he'd raise here with 65s. That leaves two pairs, sets, and bigger diamond draws, which is not a range we do brilliantly against. I don't expect to get any folds reraising, so call it is.
That's about exactly how I saw it. In the past I would have barreled again, taken the coin flip and chalked up the swing to variance. Reading this site has helped me manage my game better so I appreciate everyone's insight.

Turn was 5s, check, check.

River was 4c. Check, $50 from V. I'm ahead of 56 and any diamond draw. Thoughts?
Flopped up and down w/ FD out of position Quote
06-28-2017 , 08:36 AM
You're chopping with 56, not ahead.

I tend to range villain more heavily to sets and two pairs than diamond draws OTF anyway and then it makes way more sense for him to have checked the turn with a set or two pair than a diamond draw because with the draw, he's trying to make you fold, a one card straight board is the perfect board to keep barreling.

So this is a very easy fold imo.
Flopped up and down w/ FD out of position Quote
06-28-2017 , 08:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisV
You're chopping with 56, not ahead.

I tend to range villain more heavily to sets and two pairs than diamond draws OTF anyway and then it makes way more sense for him to have checked the turn with a set or two pair than a diamond draw because with the draw, he's trying to make you fold, a one card straight board is the perfect board to keep barreling.

So this is a very easy fold imo.
Nice analysis Chris, V had exactly 33, flopped a set.
Flopped up and down w/ FD out of position Quote
06-28-2017 , 08:57 AM
I know I will be in the minority here but I'm raising this on the flop again, and I am disco with stacking this hand..... If I'm in position yeah I would call, but if we hit our hand it's just so tough to extract value, as you see villan can just check back the turn....and when we miss miss we kind of have to fold,
I'm all about limiting variance but in this instance I just feel like we need to get some monies in the middle....

Plenty of stuff villan could fold to a shove here, or even a big raise, bare flush and straight draws, any ace... Any of his spazs.....
Flopped up and down w/ FD out of position Quote
06-28-2017 , 09:30 AM
I like the stab at the flop, although it could have been less. Now, I just let it go. We are really only hoping for a 6.
Flopped up and down w/ FD out of position Quote
06-28-2017 , 10:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ronrabbit
Plenty of stuff villan could fold to a shove here, or even a big raise, bare flush and straight draws, any ace... Any of his spazs.....
Ron - I agree that I, you and many of the folks on here would fold the hands you listed to a sizable 3b on the flop. My read though is that our Villain wouldn't have folded those to a raise. V dependent of course but a huge leak I've had in the past is expecting V's to read the signs I'm flashing and respond accordingly. In the case I felt like I plugged a leak by not forcing the issue with a V who was never folding. Throughout the session I pressed my FE in quite a few spots, this just didn't seem like one. Thanks for the input, it's appreciated.
Flopped up and down w/ FD out of position Quote

      
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