1/2 live.

Hero has about $650
V1 has $200. He generally plays very loose aggressive but we've played together a few times he is willing to lay down hands against me.

V2 covers. V2 is a bad rec player who plays a very wide range pre. He will almost always Cbet his marginal made hands and I haven't seen him check back a flop with a pair. He stations a little vs some other players but has shown he is willing to fold a pair vs me

Hero has AhKd.

Straddle, Hero opens to 20 from MP, v2 calls from the button and V1 calls from the BB. Straddle folds.

Flop: Th 4d 3h.

Pot: 60
V1 checks, I check v2 bets 20. V1 calls I call. I think folding is reasonable but holding the ace of hearts I think have the odds to call and hit with the plan of also representing a flush if a heart hits. I think V2 is trying to figure out where he's at with mediocre pair like 64 etc. I would imagine v1 has a marginal pair or draw since he would be would usually raise his strong draws and will always fast play his strong value.

In addition to being able to represent hearts, a lot of turns will also give me straights draws.

Turn Qh.

Pot:120

V1 checks, hero bets 70

I think this is a great turn card to follow through with the plan. Unless one of them made a flush here, I have 9 heart outs, 4 jacks and most likely an A or a K.

I also think this line plays off a population tendency. This line is a flush like 95 percent of the time in live 1/2. Even people who are somewhat stations are cautious when the third flush card comes and someone donks.

I would c bet this flop as you have a powerful bdfd + bdsd + overcards.

You may pick it up then or you can barrel many turns.

AP... betting turn is okay after calling on the flop. I doubt V2 is bluffing often but probably has something marginal.

I think barreling is generally a stronger line than a reverse float though

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I think barreling is a solid option but I didn't love it because both villains are somewhat sticky and V2 is uncapped since he hasn't acted yet. V1 is also pretty aggressive with raising his draws, v2 not so much.

Would you really NOT cbet a FD otf? I don't think so. Your turn bet looks more like AQ with a heart or something, however I'm afraid one of the two Vs could easily have turned the flush here. Also, QT is not folding. So I don't like the c/c flop, donk turn line as the PFR here vs 2 opponents. Obviously, your opponents may not think it through and "put you on a flush" and fold 1 pair anyway.

Flop is an obvious cbet to avoid this mess. Not many hands can call. Barreling any heart and all cards above a T obviously.

If you're going to check the flop though, might as well c/f.

I would bet most of the time with a flush draw on the flop but v2 definitely doesn't know that, I think v1 would probably expect me to. QT isn't folding but V2 has every weak suited T, 5, and 3. He also has hands like T8o and 57o so QT is a really small part of his range.

V1 is going to lead or check raise most of his flush draws, V2 could definitely have a flush but I think it's a fairly small percentage of his range and I'm giving myself a decent price to find out.

I agree that cbetting flop is certainly reasonable and maybe the superior option.

Also, perhaps the biggest advantage of barreling here, in addition to giving you two chances to bluff steal the pot versus one, is that you are more likely to face only one opponent by the turn, making your second bluff more likely to take it down.

Bluffing into two villains on the turn is less likely to be successful but you have decent equity when called so as played otf it's okay.

And your reverse float costs you 90 for one chance to bluff into two guys. Barreling you could bet 35 otf normally get 1 call then bet 70 ott into 1 v. You have much better chances at winning the pot with this line IMO.

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A bluff here works much better when you are HU. You need to be prepared to fire a second bullet if called.

Ok I'm a convert. 3 handed I'm sold on just betting.

As for the results: both villains folded, and the bad rec player folded a pair. The better villain of the two wasn't buying my story but also folded.

Yeah, cbet better.

But if you check, I think you should x/r the flop. When one V bets small and the other only calls I think a x/r to $100 will work nearly every time.

If either V calls, I think they're very likely to have a flush draw and we can probably play the turn pretty easily.

I think this is an interesting example of remaining alert to situations rather than hands. Checking might have been a mistake, but when we get a weak lead and just a call, we can exploit the new situation by x/r rather than calling and bluffing the turn.

Absolutely true. I think most of us just don't have the balls to put in that $100 as a bluff c/r though, because "what if he gets sticky?"

Standard cbet.

But what worries me is that you are convinced you can rep a flush on the turn if a heart comes, when in reality no one is going to believe you wouldn't cbet a flush draw.

Also, I don't think it's called floating when you c/c as the preflop raiser, but I could be wrong. And it doesn't really matter obviously.

this isnt really floating. youre doing it OOP and someone already called. You basically whiffed on your flop cbet, and now youre getting value bet and calling with your maybe 6 outer. Imagien how much better of a situation youd be in if you had bet it out, Both villans wouldve called so youd be in the same situation except you wouldve picked up fold equity from their missed hands.

As played, yeah sure bet the turn and bet it hard. Id bet like $110 on the turn.

People check flush draws all the time in live 1/2 and then bet out if they hit. I don't think it's that unusual.

its pretty rare for good players to check a FD after raising preflop.

How many good players play 1/2

I get what you're saying and it has some merit, but against most rec players I wouldn't put too much faith in hand reading based on what a good player would do in a given spot. I might discount a flushdraw slightly if they didn't continue in a 3 way pot, but definitely not taking it out of their range. If they then donk bet turn after calling flop, I think a flush would actually be a decent percentage of their range unless it was a small bet with a decent value hand to "figure or where they are at"

So if they think you're even halfway decent, they're not gonna put you on a flush, since you didn't cbet. You're basically saying "people do all sorts of crazy things on 1/2", but in this case I don't really think that's a valid argument for believing you could rep a flush.

I get that you were being tongue and cheek with this comment, but please do not be serious with your mentality. Treat all players with respect and as if they can competently play the game. Just because villain does not play ranges, distributions, or fully understand deep concepts of the game, does not by any means mean you should not play them as if they do get these concepts. Comments like these make me worry you play to the level of your opponent, or have too much of your own bravado. The comments above have listed the appropriately betting structure for a hand like this. Take these comments seriously and grow from them.

Taking the "everyone sucks at 1/2" mentality is crippling to many players trying to get to 2/5 too quickly. There are some very solid players who only have 1/2 available to them (me) who can (and have) played higher stakes (2/5 or 5/10) on trips where these games are available. Focus on believing your opponents are better than they are, play the ranges appropriately, be aggressive, and crush them. Treating hands passive like this, and not giving any credit to villain after your passive mistake will get you in trouble at low stakes.

We in this forum want you to succeed in your game. You post to willingly allow our criticisms, but my honest assessment of this thread and post is that you need to take a step back and study more. Prepare mentally and stop trying to make plays against bad players OOP, these are usually for thinking good solid opponents.

People c-bet way too much in general. It's fine to x/c some FDs on the flop as the pfr. Against any opponent that assumes you won't 300+BB deep you should be doing so often.

I still don't think I like overcalling with this hand much 3-ways. I would have liked a c-bet. I guess now that we're here against the small sizing I'd peel one.

I wouldn't call a bdfd+bdsd+overcards a powerful draw hand. Each back-door is worth 1 outer and the overcards are 6 outers. So, we have 8 outs OTF and if we miss the turn card we got 7 outs with one card to come for 14% chance and a very very weak draw. By the time the turn action is completed we may find ourselves pot committed with a extremely weak draw and way way behind a made hand. That's a good hand to fantasize about and make nice little plans of sucking out opponents but that doesn't bring the money in. That's a losing play with a weak hand.

I didn't. Do you know how adjectives work? I said the BDFD was powerful. Actually, it's the best BDFD we could possibly have. AhX on HHx is better than AhXh on Hxx because when the third heart appears OTT we can rep the flush, and if we get called and hit another heart we're practically guaranteed to stack our opponent, and one of them is a bad rec player 325BB+ deep who plays a wide range, which almost certainly includes lots of flush draws.

My point was the hand was plenty good to C-bet into two Vs. The flop is pretty dry so they'll both fold decently often, at least one will fold a majority of the time, and then we're usually HU OTT, where we can bluff again if our hand improved. And we may only have 8 outs to make the best hand (assuming villain is not drawing himself), but we can bet on any threatening card: any heart, any J, any Q, any K, any A, any 2, and any 5, and we have significant equity-when-called for any of these. So 25 cards will significantly improve our hand OTT. That's over half of the remaining cards, making the flop an easy C-bet.

"Pot commitment" when we're bluffing is a strange concept. It's okay to bluff the flop and give up on blank turns when both villains call. And it's okay to bluff the flop and turn and give up on the river if it's a bad card or we think villain is never folding.

Say we bet 35 OTF (a standard C-bet). We typically get 1 or 0 callers. Suppose V2 calls. The turn pot is now 130. We bet 70. IME we often win right here (close to half the time). But V2 calls. River is a blank, pot is 270, and we have left 525 against V2. We are in no way committed. OTOH, suppose V1 called OTF. Now there's 155 left, so we can either bomb the turn or bet like 50. We bet 50. We still have decent FE here. V1 calls. River pot is 230 with 105 left. That's over half V1's stack left. We still have FE, and if V1 checks to us and/or gives signs he doesn't want to see another bet, I may shove here. But we can easily get away from the hand if we think he likes his TP and is not folding. We are not committed. But checking doesn't mean we automatically lose either. We have AK so we beat every busted draw in either villain's range.

I get you're a nit who never bluffs but you gotta stop acting like that's the only way to play poker.

Guaranteed? What's the basis of these assumptions?

I said "practically guaranteed" meaning "highly likely" not certain.

PokerSnowie strongly prefers AhXc on a hhd flop compared to say AhXh on a hdc flop, even though both are backdoor draws to the nut flush. I don't know PokerSnowie's reasoning as it's a bot, but I would guess the difference is in the first case if the turn is a heart, we can rep the flush with amazing fallback equity when called, because when called our opponent often has a flush himself, and it's going to be hard for him to believe we played the nut flush like this on a fourth heart. Also compare how we make a flush in these two cases. In the first case by the time we make a flush our opponent has already invested a ton of money on a board with a 3-flush. In the second case our opponent has invested the same amount of money but there was only a 2-flush when he did so. Once villain has invested half his stack on a board with a 3-flush, he either has a flush himself or puts us on something else and is not scared of it, so he's a lot more likely to call that last bet when we make the nut flush.

Generally we're more likely to stack opponents with AhXc on hhdhh than with AhXh on hdchh and more likely with that than with AhXh on hhdch. The more disguised our flush, the more valuable it is when it hits.

And our BDFD is especially good here since one of the villains is 325BB effective, bad, and plays a wide range which almost certainly includes tons of flush draws.

My four biggest pots in my last two sessions were all BDFDs. I floated with one (correctly, by calling a c bet in position, not this nonsense, and then i called his
turn bet and rased all in on river), cbet, double barreled and shipped on the other 3. BDFDs are valuable to aggressive players, not players who check call as the preflop raiser on boards like this.

Also, one card nut flush draws are much stronger than any other one card draw, and are basically almost as strong as a normal flush draw,

There is no question this is cbet, from reads of these opponents.

However, if called. Don't think I barrel this turn card. Can pretty much range any calls we get to 10's, flush draws and pocket pairs, and occasional set. So I would think fold equity is low, and try to realize our equity.

Obviously tough if v2 called flop in position.

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