As a precursor to this hh I will say I had been playing a few hours later and a little later into the a.m. than usual, definitely down to my B game. It was also one of the most uncomfortable spots I had been put in in awhile and so was slightly shaken, between the 2 I think I may have made a mistake. Even after sometime to analyze things I really need some outside prospective so PLEASE give me your honest opinions on the hand from the given info and also if possible your reasoning behind the opinions. I'm also not going to post my line of thinking in the hand yet b/c I want totally unbiased opinions. Thx!

Deep into the A.M. at Ballys game Hero has $750 behind, image should be competent TAG...table has seen me hero call two spots with A high and then w/mid pair so largely avoids me

V1: Young Ukrainian guy, $600+ behind, LAG, seems to have a good feel for the game but plays very atypical. For example he recently went to $12 pre w/KK, V2 made it $35 in cutoff, V1 flats then open shoves $255 on a 9c-6c-9d flop...shows ppKK. He is super loose pre with like a 85-90% VPIP and his limp + call range is practically the same so preflop ranging him is pretty futile...its about any 2 cards, he generally plays much more competent though very aggressive post flop. His play style has me pretty certain he plays primarily HU online and is donking around in the lives on vacation.

V2: Young glasses engineer type, $200 behind will raise premiums but super nitty.


V2 opens to $14 in EP, hero calls from MP with 9d10d...looser than I have been playing but leaving soon. V1 calls from BB.

Flop comes 7dAd4c...as expected V2 connects well with that Ace and leads out $25, I flat as does V1. (what do we think of V1s range at this point???)

Turn is the Qd, V1 open shoves $550+ ...V2 tanks awhile before folding. Hero tanks, V1 is smiling and saying we can almost double up off him. Hero?

Input greatly appreciated thx!

Snapple. He def could be shoving here with worse(2pr or sets).

We have to have Ax, AQ, and QQ in his shove range here, but it's too easy to assume you have him after the turn.

V1 has Kxdd or Jxdd here most of the time, and and is using ****ty Internet pro table talk to try and induce a call. You're only in for $37, wait for a better spot IMO. He was coming along with any two cards.

I don't hate pre, I'm assuming you have good enough read on V2's post flop play, and you're pretty sure the people on your left are going to fold.

Likewise the flop, although that bet sizing was pretty strong. Are you sure this guy is going to roll over and play dead ott? Maybe you can tell us more about your plan for V2?

As for v1, I would call. This is a great place to bluff. He is almost certain you don't have kxdd.

I doubt he is on air, almost certainly has redraws. (Bet I know where Kd is!). But. Me, I would call.

I'm folding here then racking up because I played the hand wrong due to being too deep. One big reason I'd advocate a fold here is the speech. Any talking is most often a sign of strength.

The flop is where we went wrong. Calling with non-nut draws sucks, and this situation is why. One better play would be to fold the flop. Another better play would be to raise the flop. This can force out better draws that have us crushed, force out pairs that have good equity against us, and makes us continue against sets/top pairs which we have ok equity against.

I don't mind the preflop call since we know V1 is almost always coming along, he's deep, and we have position on him.

Leave the table before you're dealt cards. The reality is that if you think you're playing your B game, you're playing your C game at best. Poker players are bad judges of their play under the best of circumstances. This isn't the best of circumstances.

A sign of this is that you wrote you normally don't call with T9s, but you're leaving soon. It is just one big session. Changing your game because you're leaving is a fish move. Money you lose at the end of the evening spends the same as money at the beginning of the session. That said, calling with T9s is a judgement call decision. I'd do it if it is a passive table where the villain is going to bet/bet/bet TP.

I'd call the flop. The chances there's another FD drops considerably with the ace on the board. I don't think V1 is going to fold TP, so raising doesn't make much sense.

With the speech on the turn, I'd just fold. He wants a call and as played, he thinks you have a flush too.

Fold pre. Don't give preflop nits action unless they will pay you off too much postflop or fold too much postflop. If he plays even somewhat close to "standard" you won't be able to profit here.

As played this is a pretty gross spot. Your read that he is an internet player makes me think he rarely has sets and two pair here. A typical maniac fish will show up with sets/two pair here but a good player that is messing around will not. Are you sure he's a good internet player? The kings hand is really weird and not like a good player at all. His flush range definitely crushes your hand. I fold since it's 5x pot, but I think it all comes down to whether or not you think he is actually a good internet player or not.

I would call here with the T high flush, something lower like 45 or something I'd find a fold

There is no reason to think that villian is not doing this with AA / QQ or AQ and worse flushes. I'd snap call. You might even find AxKd a lot of the time

A good metric would to be attempt to recall what villian's past shoves have been and for instance KK on 9x9 is looking for a call from PP so is a decent shove but is of course not the nuts. There is no reason for villian to think that 5d6d 4d5d and so on are not nuts here.

Pre-flop will be weighted toward a fold because of position,opponent stack size and number of players in the pot

OTF you never fold.

IMO the turn is based on a live read and any advice you receive will not help you or any other player prepare for this situation in the future because of how player dependent the overshove is. still....sick spot lol

I fold pre because v2 only has $186 behind after his ep raise, not enough IO if you're going by Dan Harrington's philosophy of set mining when you're getting around 20:1 IO. I know we're not set mining with 109s but I try to go by the same philosophy since most of the time (around 80%) you're not going to flop a flush draw and/or open-end straight draw or made flush or straight and I actually want to get better IO with suited connectors then I want when I'm set mining since, in general, they're not as hidden as well and more times then not you are not going to complete your draw.

If you were like 80-90% sure v1 was going to call $14 in the BB than I think calling is ok (though I think folding is still preferable unless you think you have decent fold equity). Just beware that your hand could be dominated by higher flush draw, or if you make a non-nut straight you will be in a potentially tricky spot if you face a big bet.

As far as turn shove I fold, but my gut tells me calling is not horrible either as he could be doing it with sets, two pair, and even on very rare occasions, air.

If he has the nuts and he is a good player as you say, he isn't getting any value on that shove unless he knows you're going to call. He could very well do this with less than the nuts as see before. Given that he could show up with a lower flush or a Kd, I wouldn't mind calling. If you think losing is going to affect later play as in tomorrow, then fold and leave. I would have to be in that situation and would talk to him to attain info. If he's primarily an internet player, it's easy to break them.

Never folding. There are not many suited and somewhat K and J combos there except for KJdd. V could do it with bare Kd which he believes gives him good combo draw.

You are folding a flush draw to one bet on the flop?!? Results oriented IMO. Also... I think raising with a flush draw on this board is pretty meh. Especially a naked T-high flush draw. I also don't think that higher flush draws will fold. Against V2, can't we just float the flop and see what he does OTT? I mean I doubt he's going to barrel with KK-99 or whatever and we can just decide what to do then depending on the remainder of the action on the flop and turn.

As played I would probably sigh call. It's just a really weird line for someone to take with the nuts. His range contains a number of worse flushes, probably more combos than hands the beat us. He also may c/r the flop with the nut flush draw.

Guess I disagree with most as I'm pretty happy about calling here.

+1. 15s tank tops, call.

Dude isn't shoving into 2 opponents with out a flush IMO. I discount QQ due to no 3 bet pre as well as AQ. Ohh and did I mention the speech, that is the nuts so often. If he had two pair or a set on the flop he is always raising. I think this is a fold this deep. We should not be Flatting pre flop vs a known nit. Seems like a -EV play always vs a 100bb stack. Let's rack up and come back to play when we are feeling sharper.

He shoved 300bb into 2 ppl and gave the speech. Snap fold. Only tanking for a few seconds to think about how much I hate folding

Tough spot!

o and fold pre. Don't feed the nits bro

I play a lot of plo and would advise this in that game but a flush in holdem is so unlikely, 10 high is easily good enough to continue.

I know everyone is caught up on the speech, but is a bigger flush ever open jamming here?

I doubt it. I am happy to get it in here.

Well as a lot of people said...I was playing sub par and tired. Little alarm bells were going off in my head and I knew there was a lot of live info (I play 1200+ hrs/yr live so usually can process a lot from this) that I knew was there but I just wasn't absorbing it correctly...I ultimately decided to make it a -$40 mistake rather than a potential -$600+ mistake and folded.

vs most Vs we would like that our 9d-10d blocks the mostly likely flush connectors that he would show up with accompanying the J or K...but as I said this guys range is infinite so kd4d...Jd7d w/e...its all there. That said I think he has a lot of smaller flushes being disgustingly overplayed and some sets he shoves hoping to get something like TP nut flsh draw to stack off with...so I think we can make the call here. It was really tough to get a read on him because he clearly had little regard for the stakes and was very comfortable in the game (I'm sticking to mid/high stakes HU experience online and hes donking around on vacation pulling stupid moves ect) and he did make that speech...

Well anyhow, I fold...he shows A BLACK OFFSUIT Q10!?!? lmfao so essentially air which he well knows...now that I did not expect.

Saw him the next night told him it was the one of the wildest bluffs I had seen all year, he said he was soooo drunk he was just totally ***** around but I never got the sense of how wasted he was...gdam Soviets raised on Vodka baby bottles...certainly could explain some of the cocky confidence and calm demeanor I mistook for strength...

Thx for the replies, have also talked to several people about the hand...general consensus seems to be...sick spot, some calls...some folds...

this crossed my mind, but the problem was WTF IS ever open jamming here!?

Not that many combos of flushes you beat. 8x 6x 5x 3x. When I read about it, I can make this fold. You saw him donk shove KK on a dry low board, so I think that adds to folding as an option.

this is an ugly spot. It feels more like he is trying to push the nit off a hand and not giving you credit for having much here. Does he think you would have raised with a FD otf against the nit?

I wouldn't be surprised at all to see KdQx or KdTx. I think he 3 bets all big A's and pp's from the sb. I just don't think he open shoves with the nuts, much more likely with the nut blocker imo. As much as the speech sucks, I'm not folding. Call it off and fade the diamond river.

Wow! That shove got your attention!

I think I call. Even if V1 has a flush, there's a good chance you have a better one. It's hard to think he would bet five times the pot with the nuts. If he has something like KJ, you'll be kicking yourself, but it may be a chance I have to take.

Tough spot.