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Call, Fold, or Raise against a beached whale? Call, Fold, or Raise against a beached whale?

03-29-2017 , 04:26 AM
Main Vaillin (BTN) 200bb effective: Really nice bloke but a whale, limp calls far too often pre and folds on most flops. Hero has been relentlessly C-betting against him on flops with value and bluffs and has taken it down either on flop or turn almost every time. Hero bluffed river in a large pot and villain snap folded a missed draw. Plays transparently, bets what he deems as value hands, checks weaker hands, checks draws a lot too, hardly EVER raises

Hero (HJ) Covers: Winner at the table, perceived image probably LAG. Raising a lot in position and taking pots down at showdown often. Sometimes bets value on flops, sometimes doesn't. Has made several hero calls with second pair with good reads and was good all but one time (5/6 times was good, got owned by rivered house lol). Hero usually plays TAG but I felt LAG was the best approach to take at this table, and especially against villain.

OTTH

Pre Flop
UTG Limps, UTG+2 Limps, Hero raises to 7bb (standard raise) with A T in the HJ, button (Villain) calls, UTG +2 also calls

Flop (22bb): A57 Rainbow
UTG+2 checks, Hero checks, villain bets 10, UTG folds, hero calls
- Wish such a dry flop I couldn't see myself being paid on 3 streets with this hand, so planned on betting turn and river if hero checked back flop, or calling down in most spots otherwise

The Turn (42bbs): 6... Board now A576 (Rainbow)
Hero Checks, Villain bets 22bb, hero calls
- Same logic as above, planning on check calling most if not all rivers

The River (86bbs): T... Board A576T
hero checks, Villain bets 32bb, Hero?

I can see credit for all three options here (admittedly very few for folding, but the argument could be made). Let me know what you would do, and why. Thanks
Call, Fold, or Raise against a beached whale? Quote
03-29-2017 , 04:40 AM
You beat so many more Ax combos, all 2 pairs and you're only scared of sets as it doesn't seem villian would play a gutshot this way.

Reraise small and evaluate. If he jams I think you can safely fold, but he will most likely call with strong Ax or any 2p here. He might even just flat with a flopped set as I see so often in these LLSNL games so put money in when you beat way more combos than you lose to
Call, Fold, or Raise against a beached whale? Quote
03-29-2017 , 04:45 AM
That's true and similar to my thinking. I'm only scared of sets and straights, but he doesn't bet his gunshot on the flop. I don't think he bets hands like a 7 on the flop though either which reduces his 2ps to Ax two pairs. Raise/folding to a 3! is definitely one of the better options I think
Call, Fold, or Raise against a beached whale? Quote
03-29-2017 , 05:02 AM
Don't raise/fold. Jam yourself. This guy is probably fed up with all the pots you are stealing from him and he's not about to let you push him off two pair. There's no reason to make a smaller raise when villain seems strong and a shove isn't even an overbet.
Call, Fold, or Raise against a beached whale? Quote
03-29-2017 , 05:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDT123
That's true and similar to my thinking. I'm only scared of sets and straights, but he doesn't bet his gunshot on the flop. I don't think he bets hands like a 7 on the flop though either which reduces his 2ps to Ax two pairs. Raise/folding to a 3! is definitely one of the better options I think
Quote:
Originally Posted by browni3141
Don't raise/fold. Jam yourself. This guy is probably fed up with all the pots you are stealing from him and he's not about to let you push him off two pair. There's no reason to make a smaller raise when villain seems strong and a shove isn't even an overbet.
He could have 57 for a flopped bottom 2pair aswell

I couldn't do the math for a reraise so dont' listen to me saying raise/fold. I hate it when it's laid out in bbs idk why but it confuses me and I cbf to do the math
Call, Fold, or Raise against a beached whale? Quote
03-29-2017 , 05:17 AM
I would be jamming 135 ish over a 32bb bet in to an 80bb pot, somewhat on the large side but definitely reasonable! I was torn between jamming and calling, a rough guess I'm good probably 70% of the time here given his range, but few combos he will call with if I jam, Ax pretty much it that I beat. I think he folds 57 or other 2ps. Looking at the stacks again there's no room for raise/folding as I've just realised, unless I min raise which I'm never doing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtol
He could have 57 for a flopped bottom 2pair aswell

I couldn't do the math for a reraise so dont' listen to me saying raise/fold. I hate it when it's laid out in bbs idk why but it confuses me and I cbf to do the math
I agree with you, but since I'm playing 1/1 it's better set out at BB's or people just comment 'lol Ur playing 1/1 just jam and this whale will call with bottom pair' which gets annoying. I feel I get the best advice when it's set out as BB's, for this reason
Call, Fold, or Raise against a beached whale? Quote
03-29-2017 , 05:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDT123
I would be jamming 135 ish over a 32bb bet in to an 80bb pot, somewhat on the large side but definitely reasonable! I was torn between jamming and calling, a rough guess I'm good probably 70% of the time here given his range, but few combos he will call with if I jam, Ax pretty much it that I beat. I think he folds 57 or other 2ps. Looking at the stacks again there's no room for raise/folding as I've just realised, unless I min raise which I'm never doing


I agree with you, but since I'm playing 1/1 it's better set out at BB's or people just comment 'lol Ur playing 1/1 just jam and this whale will call with bottom pair' which gets annoying. I feel I get the best advice when it's set out as BB's, for this reason
ahh fair enough, easy jam in this spot then. Sigh and say nice hand sir if you're beat and move on, otherwise start stacking those chips!
Call, Fold, or Raise against a beached whale? Quote
03-29-2017 , 05:25 AM
Good advice! Thanks for you insight pal

Spoiler:
RESULTS:

Hero calls, villain shows 2p (67) and villain asks why I didn't raise the river

Last edited by JDT123; 03-29-2017 at 05:39 AM.
Call, Fold, or Raise against a beached whale? Quote
03-29-2017 , 02:27 PM
Thin value is something I'm working on a lot currently it's helping my winrate enormously, I think it's a huge part of profits in llsnl
Call, Fold, or Raise against a beached whale? Quote
03-29-2017 , 02:47 PM
I'd probably lead river to be honest, letting a lot of Ax hands check back. This player doesn't seem like the type who'd raise with anything worse than a straight on the river, but think close to 0% of the time this loose passive type has a semi bluff with a gutshot in his range anyways. Pretty goodspot to bet/fold.

As played though, our hand is too strong to not check raise and he has many, many worse hands that he can call with. If we do run into the top of his range then unlucky for us but this is a clear cut check raise to about 80BB. If for some miraculous reason he 3bet jams it is a fold obviously.
Call, Fold, or Raise against a beached whale? Quote
03-29-2017 , 02:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDT123
Good advice! Thanks for you insight pal

Spoiler:
RESULTS:

Hero calls, villain shows 2p (67) and villain asks why I didn't raise the river
Villain bet the A 5 7 flop with 67?
Call, Fold, or Raise against a beached whale? Quote

      
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