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| Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies. |
08-02-2011, 03:17 PM
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#1
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grinder
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 481
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Bluff Against Weak Opponent
So I am playing 1/2, and have about a stack of 550 in front of me--Villain starts hand with about 300 or so. In terms of history I have only played with villain once, and he is a very weak opponent--He just started playing, doesn't really know much about the game, and is usually a huge calling station.
So in the hand I raise to 13 in MP with JJ (standard opening), and get right around 5 callers including villain who is in the CO.
The flop comes 478 with two spades-- Everyone checks to me, I bet 25, one person behind me calls, and villain min-raises to 50. This is the first time I've seen him min raise so I'm thinking he has a strong hand, but with as much money as there is in the pot and him being an amateur I decide to peel one off (he might think 99 or TT is the nuts here)--Other player folds
The turn is the Q of spades, and as I'm thinking about what to do villain shakes his head and says check. I decide to go ahead and try to represent spades (I don't have the J of spades) and bet out 65. Villain thinks for about 30 seconds and calls.
River is the 2 of spades, so it is a four flush board-- I decide to shove-- Tell me what you think about my line in the hand.
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08-02-2011, 03:24 PM
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#2
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 20,565
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Re: Bluff Against Weak Opponent
betting turn is really silly after he checks out of turn. especially how you were valuecalling small overpairs on the flop. plus hes a noob and wont fold anything better than you. and its generally -ev to play for your stack based on an intentionally made live tell.
again, think only better hands call u on end, 56 even w/flush folds im pretty sure, and vil would never turn his 2p+/KK+ into bluffs here.
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08-02-2011, 03:35 PM
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#3
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old hand
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,454
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Re: Bluff Against Weak Opponent
LOL i laughed for a minute when your title is "bluff against weak opponent" and then in your reads you describe him as a calling station. So before we even start i hate your bluff.
Anyway, as played, the river shove is perfect. You lucked out completely with the perfect runner runner. If it was not running spades to four flush this would be really bad.
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08-02-2011, 03:35 PM
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#4
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centurion
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Tiltville
Posts: 140
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Re: Bluff Against Weak Opponent
I think you should yield rather than merge...
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08-02-2011, 03:46 PM
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#5
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enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 56
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Re: Bluff Against Weak Opponent
I would bet a little bit more on the flop. Maybe $40. So that it looks as if you have something and are not just continuing with the bet before the flop.
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08-02-2011, 03:52 PM
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#6
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adept
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: NC
Posts: 773
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Re: Bluff Against Weak Opponent
Newbies tend to play their hands face up - he probably wasn't leveling you with the head-shake on the turn. He obv doesn't like the Qs with the check call. I think if you're going to make a play here (which, bluffing against calling stations, -EV no matter what) you need to bet more OTT to get him off the hand, or check behind/ship scare cards like the one that fell OTR.
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08-02-2011, 04:07 PM
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#7
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veteran
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: @DeTalores
Posts: 3,450
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Re: Bluff Against Weak Opponent
1. you say he's a calling station yet you want to bluff him? how does that make any sense?
2. your bet sizing is pretty awful on the flop. There is $78 on the flop(13x6?) and you bet 1/4 pot with an overpair on such a draw heavy board lol...
3. When he calls the turn his range is heavily weighted towards a hand like A8 with A spades. Are you even thinking of his range? What is he going to call with on the turn when the third spade hits that's an overcard to the board then fold when you bet on the river with the fourth spade?
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08-02-2011, 04:27 PM
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#8
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old hand
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,454
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Re: Bluff Against Weak Opponent
Quote:
Originally Posted by LolPony
1. you say he's a calling station yet you want to bluff him? how does that make any sense?
2. your bet sizing is pretty awful on the flop. There is $78 on the flop(13x6?) and you bet 1/4 pot with an overpair on such a draw heavy board lol...
3. When he calls the turn his range is heavily weighted towards a hand like A8 with A spades. Are you even thinking of his range? What is he going to call with on the turn when the third spade hits that's an overcard to the board then fold when you bet on the river with the fourth spade?
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lots of hands, he is a calling station remember...56 is a good example though
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08-02-2011, 09:59 PM
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#9
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journeyman
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada
Posts: 281
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Re: Bluff Against Weak Opponent
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAH bluffing a calling station. that worked for me .................. once
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08-02-2011, 10:44 PM
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#10
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Oberbiergenießer
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In warehouse playing against ZZ Top
Posts: 4,918
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Re: Bluff Against Weak Opponent
:Grunch:
No offense, but this hand is a train wreck from the start.
If a "standard" raise of $13 gets "right around 5 callers," it is was too small. JJ does not play well multi-way OOP. What is the "standard" raise at this table that gets "right around 1 or 2 callers?" Make that.
OTF you have an overpair so you bet $25 into "right around" $78 on a SD/FD board OOP? Bad sizing. If you're going to bet here, it needs to be at the very least $50. I would probably bet in the real world, but bloating the pot into eleventeen players here with a medium overpair is not pretty. As much as I hate to give a free card here, I hate getting committed in this situation even more.
AP, a bad passive calling station min-raised. Alarm bells should be shrieking. POs demand a call, but proceed with extreme caution.
I don't hate the turn. You could have been trying to set a price to draw to a FD OTF. Once he calls, though, I'm 100% done. If he loves his hand enough to call when the obvious draw hit, the 4th spade is highly unlikely to get him to fold.
Post Grunch edit: Disagree with those liking the river shove. V is cally, has made a rare raise, and continued when the FD came in. Even if he has no spades, he's likely to curse his bad luck... and then call anyway.
Last edited by Garick; 08-02-2011 at 10:49 PM.
Reason: post grunch
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08-03-2011, 07:00 AM
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#11
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Referee
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Living on the air in 3 forums
Posts: 15,579
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Re: Bluff Against Weak Opponent
My only quibble with Garick's post is that JJ is a fine hand to play with 5 callers. However, you're going to play it like 99, not KK.
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08-03-2011, 10:04 AM
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#12
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old hand
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,454
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Re: Bluff Against Weak Opponent
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
:Grunch:
No offense, but this hand is a train wreck from the start.
If a "standard" raise of $13 gets "right around 5 callers," it is was too small. JJ does not play well multi-way OOP. What is the "standard" raise at this table that gets "right around 1 or 2 callers?" Make that.
OTF you have an overpair so you bet $25 into "right around" $78 on a SD/FD board OOP? Bad sizing. If you're going to bet here, it needs to be at the very least $50. I would probably bet in the real world, but bloating the pot into eleventeen players here with a medium overpair is not pretty. As much as I hate to give a free card here, I hate getting committed in this situation even more.
AP, a bad passive calling station min-raised. Alarm bells should be shrieking. POs demand a call, but proceed with extreme caution.
I don't hate the turn. You could have been trying to set a price to draw to a FD OTF. Once he calls, though, I'm 100% done. If he loves his hand enough to call when the obvious draw hit, the 4th spade is highly unlikely to get him to fold.
Post Grunch edit: Disagree with those liking the river shove. V is cally, has made a rare raise, and continued when the FD came in. Even if he has no spades, he's likely to curse his bad luck... and then call anyway.
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Isnt the river super polarized though? even a calling station will fold without the A or K of spades because he will assume we will never bet with worse. As i said in my first post, bluffing a station is laughable, but i think this is the ONE circumstance where it is ok.
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08-03-2011, 07:56 PM
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#13
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Oberbiergenießer
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: In warehouse playing against ZZ Top
Posts: 4,918
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Re: Bluff Against Weak Opponent
Good point, venice10. It's OK to make a pot builder raise with JJ, if we can get aawy from it if it doesn't hit a set. Problems arise when it's a medium overpair, however. Those are hard for most of us to get away from
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even a calling station will fold without the A or K of spades because he will assume we will never bet with worse.
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I don't think so. I've seen many a station call with a little set on a 4-straight board, or even a 4-flush board if one of their small PP is of the right suit. Then they say "I knew you had the straight, but I couldn't fold a set!"
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