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Old 12-26-2010, 08:56 PM   #1
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Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

I have played poker for almost four years now in various locations (home games, online, and at card rooms and casinos), but have just recently began keeping track of a live bankroll. I play mostly $0.10/$0.25 NLHE at a weekly home game, and then 1/1 NLHE at a few local card rooms. I occasionally play 1/2 NLHE, but that is only because the Seminole Hard Rock doesn't offer a 1/1 game. From my experience, i can see that 1/2 is a much juicer game than 1/1 and has much greater potential for profits, mainly due to the buy-in caps (20-60bb @ 1/1 and 50-100bb @ 1/2).

My question is what is the smallest bankroll that i could comfortably play 1/2 at without a significant risk of ruin? I don't mind buying in short-stacked and playing from there (Seminole Hard Rock has a 50bb max for 1/2, although the other three places i play at don't). I currently have a BR of $900, and am a winning player.

Any advice would be appreciated!

Last edited by Rapini; 12-27-2010 at 12:55 AM. Reason: Moved from B&M to Poker Theory.
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Old 12-26-2010, 09:04 PM   #2
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

20 Buy-ins
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Old 12-26-2010, 09:10 PM   #3
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

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20 Buy-ins


4k to play 1/2? nty
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Old 12-26-2010, 09:12 PM   #4
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

I started with 1K and worked myself to 4.5K currently. The 1K wasn't my end all be all though I had money in the bank but felt 1K was my stop loss for my first shot at seriously grinding live 1/2. I'd say 1K is a little small though, I could have easily ran bad initially and went busto. 2K should be enough if you play 100bb buyins depending on your style if your a winning player.
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Old 12-26-2010, 09:27 PM   #5
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

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comfortably play 1/2 at without a significant risk of ruin?
Yeah, yeah, muppets. In theory, you could start with $25, borrow $25 from your mom, and starting with a $50 short buy-in go on a heater to a million dollars, take $10,000 of that, enter the WSOP, win the main event for $7 million, then offer Phil Ivey to flip for it all using an obsolete cranberry chip from the Bellagio.

OP had a specific requirement, I gave an answer.
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Old 12-26-2010, 11:05 PM   #6
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

20 buyins is a bit excessive.. at 2/5 yes. at 1/2 no.

10buyins imo., 7.5 if you're taking a shot. 5 if you're playing it once a month.

($500-2000)
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Old 12-26-2010, 11:21 PM   #7
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

This prob needs to be asked in live low stakes strat forum otherwise you will get lots of ppl who don't know what risk of ruin means. Also a lot of ppl here play super nitty nutpeddling poker for safety instead of max profits.if you play that way then obv u won't need as big of a roll but u give up expectation.
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Old 12-26-2010, 11:22 PM   #8
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20 buyins is a bit excessive.. at 2/5 yes. at 1/2 no.

10buyins imo., 7.5 if you're taking a shot. 5 if you're playing it once a month.

($500-2000)
What does how often you playhave to do with anything?
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Old 12-26-2010, 11:28 PM   #9
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

this has a very straightforward answer:

It depends on your standard deviation of your play. Since you've been playing for four years, if you've kept a good session log then this can be calculated, see risk of ruin calculator such as http://www.castrovalva.com/~la/bank.htm

you want bankroll required, the free variables are win rate, standard deviation, and acceptable risk of ruin.

I'm going to guess you haven't kept a good session log... in which case, I think it is reasonable to even challenge the claim that you are a winning player. $900 bankroll may be a fine stoploss, but you've got to eat as well.
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:48 AM   #10
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

People saying 5k for 1-2 is excessive don't play enough live poker. It's not good to put 20% of your "roll" into 1 session , you'd be playing poorly. Having 5k is just a security blanket so you're not short stacking and looking back at your bankroll whenever you lose a buyin
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Old 12-27-2010, 12:52 AM   #11
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

I'd say 5-6k is optimal
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:24 AM   #12
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I would say it depends on if you have the capability to top your bankroll. If you can't id start with min 4k. I can tell you just this week i lost 1k over two sessions (four sick beats in a row).
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Old 12-27-2010, 02:50 AM   #13
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

I'd say 20 buyins is too much, but live is rigged.
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Old 12-27-2010, 03:01 AM   #14
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

Truth is, if you're down 10-15 BI's at 1/2 live, you're likely screwed regardless how much BR you have. You'll be mentally and psychologically screwed, and will probably blow equal amount of money in some sort of house game and go busto.

1/2 live players do not have strong self-discipline, and many of them cannot handle the swings. People sit here and discuss as if 4k or even 10k BR would keep you in-line with the game, but the cold truth is, 2k swing is enough to make a lot of these players go busto.
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Old 12-27-2010, 08:54 PM   #15
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

a 2k downswing will probably happen to everyone who plays long enough
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Old 12-28-2010, 12:31 PM   #16
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

If I was going to try and grind 1/2 and take is seriously id play with 6k, I dont care if I COULD play with a 10buyins, if I lost half my roll it would tilt me, but if i lost 10buyins w. a 30buyin roll it wouldnt.
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Old 12-28-2010, 12:45 PM   #17
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

I play 1/2 live for a living at the taj mahal. I am 22 years old and after graduating college decided that I cant make 30/hr anywhere else in this economy. As long as you maximize value out of your big hands and if you have reads so that you can get thin value, you dont need that huge of a bankroll. Just dont get it in with big draws because it increases variance and the fe you think you have is grossly overestimated. There are very few players that will put 50 in a pot then fold to your shove at 1/2. I started with 3k and with a semi nitty tag style I have never lost more than 2 buy ins in a week.
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Old 12-28-2010, 01:30 PM   #18
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

If you nit it up and table and player select properly you don't need a BR for 1/2 NL. Some of the games are so soft that you don't really have to worry. The same can be said for some 300 and 500nl games too. But again you NEED to select your table wisely.
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Old 12-31-2010, 04:00 PM   #19
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

If you are losing 2 grand in a couple sessions of 1/2 then you need to drop down to a lower level, which is almost nonexistant live.

I play a lot of live poker and it's pretty rare to see someone degen it up that bad at 1/2. At 2/5 or higher, its easy, but not at 1/2. You have to recognize when it's time to walk away from the table.
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Old 01-02-2011, 01:24 PM   #20
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonInDallas View Post
This prob needs to be asked in live low stakes strat forum otherwise you will get lots of ppl who don't know what risk of ruin means. Also a lot of ppl here play super nitty nutpeddling poker for safety instead of max profits.if you play that way then obv u won't need as big of a roll but u give up expectation.
This, this, and this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrjones_76 View Post
a 2k downswing will inevitably happen to everyone who plays long enough
fyp
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Old 01-03-2011, 12:53 AM   #21
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

yeah, the thing about playing live 1/2 is that most people can go out and replace the money if they happen to lose it.. if you have 900, i'd be comfortable sitting down and playing 1/2 regularly.
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:10 AM   #22
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

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Originally Posted by crazynip View Post
I play a lot of live poker and it's pretty rare to see someone degen it up that bad
I find it quite common.
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Old 01-09-2011, 09:46 AM   #23
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

20 buy-ins would be my comfort zone.
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Old 01-09-2011, 07:17 PM   #24
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThaPr0fess0r View Post
I have played poker for almost four years now in various locations (home games, online, and at card rooms and casinos), but have just recently began keeping track of a live bankroll. I play mostly $0.10/$0.25 NLHE at a weekly home game, and then 1/1 NLHE at a few local card rooms. I occasionally play 1/2 NLHE, but that is only because the Seminole Hard Rock doesn't offer a 1/1 game. From my experience, i can see that 1/2 is a much juicer game than 1/1 and has much greater potential for profits, mainly due to the buy-in caps (20-60bb @ 1/1 and 50-100bb @ 1/2).

My question is what is the smallest bankroll that i could comfortably play 1/2 at without a significant risk of ruin? I don't mind buying in short-stacked and playing from there (Seminole Hard Rock has a 50bb max for 1/2, although the other three places i play at don't). I currently have a BR of $900, and am a winning player.

Any advice would be appreciated!
Two points.

It sounds like you are a recreational player. If so, then you're probably prepared to add to your bankroll from general income or savings. That means to me that there is no need to actually have a tin with x bucks in it mark "bankroll" on the lid.

Just as useful is to keep an account that says how you're doing. If you ever go down x buyins, then stop and re-evaluate. Also, saying "bankroll is x buyins" has always struck me as strange.

Better to have a "moving down" theshold (maybe 15 buyins), moving up threshold (20-25 buyins at the next level) and a "taking shots" theshold (starting somewhere around 10-15 buyins at the next level, and incrementing a couple of buyins every time you take a shot and fail.)
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Old 01-10-2011, 04:53 PM   #25
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Re: Bankroll for 1/2 NL live.

ok from your fellow $1/2 Live grinder i play at the Delware Park Casino Heres my rule of thumb. If im going down there to grind a full day like 12-16 hours i like to have at least 5 max buy-ins which i buy in for $300.00 if im just stopping in to play for like a couple hours than i only need 1-2 buy-ins if i go busto i leave and thats that. you dont need 6k in your wallet to go play 1/2 for 12 hours the only way u need that kind of a bankroll is if you play on staying like a week at a casino. I play 1/2 live i dont really care what everyone says if its a day session no more than 1-2k
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