1/2
8 handed

I sit down directly to the left of Villain. V is a middle aged Asian guy. I only saw him play a few hands where he limped pre and then played aggressively pf. Never saw him show down a hand. Looks like typical asian LAG.

100bb eff
Villain UTG limps
Hero UTG+1 raises to $13 with AT
Folded back to V who calls

Flop: AQ8 (pot: ~$30)

Villain checks
Hero checks

Turn: 3

Villain checks
Hero bets $20
Villain x/r to $60
Hero calls

River: 7(pot: $150)

Villain shoves for $125
Hero?


1) Is my first mistake raising pre?
2) Is my second mistake checking flop? My reasoning was that he looked weak so I thought if I checked he was the type of player who would bluff the turn. Also pot control/balancing.
3) Is my third mistake calling the turn? At this point I thought that he would've bet an A, Q, or flush draw OTT so his x/r seemed really bluffy to me.
River of course brings the flush. He shoved almost instantly ( not sure if tell).
Can he ever have bluffs here? KJ or JT type hand and decided to x/r bluff and follow through on scary river. Would he bet 87s for value?

Without a read on villain, I don't particularly like ATs preflop. Until you have some idea what his EP range is, this is hard to play post flop in most flops. When you catch one pair, you don't have much idea if your ahead or behind.

As played, bet the flop. Once you don't bet the flop it's pure guess work on the turn. You could be ahead a flush draw or even total air but could be crushed by two pair+. For the most part, just fold to the turn check/raise. Villain has to pretty aggressive to check/raise a flush draw on turn. In any case, fold river. Yes villain can be bluffing, but your losing to something more then winning.

Bet/fold flop and turn. Consider checking back the river unimproved. As played fold the turn until you have a stronger read. Your trying to induce a bluff is fancy play. I agree his line looks bluffy but do you really want to bluff catch for stacks here?

Raising ATs UTG+1 is fine in an 8 handed game. It's going to be tough to play postflop unless you fold out everyone else, but you'll make some nuttish hands often enough that it should be profitable.

i assume koss means b/f flop and b/f turn (assuming that you got c/c on the flop), which i think is good
i think if you check back the flop, i would not b/f the turn.

i would feel pretty gross about the river, but i think you can fold.

I don't mind your line at all. Definitely not the worst line. I bet the flop tho.

Easy fold to the obvious flush.

After you check the flop, some Asian LAGs will bet the turn with most of their pairs and draws, so that their checking range on the turn is complete crap, slow-played strong hands, and hands that were helped by the turn (33, for example). If he is this sort of player, arguably, one mistake in this hand was betting the turn.

b/f flop, b/f turn. folding river always

After he checked the turn I thought he looked sorta disinterested in the hand. Because of that, when I bet I had the assumption he was just going to quickly muck. So when he raised I thought he just thought I was trying to pick up the pot. (to much thinking?) As AsianNit said, I think he bets the turn with pairs and draws. His line just didn't make sense.

Even against a player who takes the line of c/c flop, c/c turn, donk river for less than 20% of the pot?

Lines that don't make sense tend to be polarized between weird bluffs or value bets (such as betting third pair while expecting to be called by a worse hand) and the nuts. I am willing to say that AA/QQ could be in villain's range on this hand.

If he looks disinterested after checking the turn, he is usually either legitimately disinterested (so you want to check back at him and hope he bluffs the river or picks up enough to bluff-catch) or he wants you to think he is legitimately disinterested (and if he's trying to fool you, he probably wants you to bet, which means you probably shouldn't bet). The other possibility is that he was not disinterested and you just read him wrong.

AA/QQ could make sense but he shoved so fast on the river like with no consideration that the flush it. Wouldn't he at least think?

Maybe weak is a better word. When he raised the turn I just had one of those live read feelings that he was making a move.

Would he ever raise the turn with Ax/Qx for value?

Grunch and I haven't read the notes at the bottom of OP.

That river should scare him pretty good so I think he is bluffing.

Read notes
1) I limp that hand.
2) I like checking the flop here.
3) I think a flush draw will bet out on the turn rather than cr almost always as would most pairs. I think bluff is most likely then AAA, 888 or 333.

If he has the sort of tunnel vision where he "knows" you have AK or some other hand that he beats, the flush draw isn't going to stop him.

If you think he's making a move, you should consider whether it is better to just reraise the turn or call and let him bluff the river. I can't tell you what you should have done, but I can describe profiles and betting patterns that make one or the other of those right.

How he plays Ax/Qx depends on what he puts you on. He might be the sort of player to put you on a specific hand or a very narrow range.

V's line looks fos IMO. It takes a pretty crafty villain to check a value hand 2x (minus 33), and not to bet a FD ott after we've shown weakness.

FWIW I like the flop check and I think you played the hand fine.

I don't like bluff catching for stacks...think you should just be playing this hand simply and c-betting the flop.

Without better reads...I'm folding on the turn.

Call.

A) he's a lag who limps pre and plays aggressively post flop.

B) What could you ever raise UTG+1 here that has a flush? KJs is the best and most won't raise that here.

C) you checked the flop, effectively taking out all sets/2pair/AK from your range.

So there is no reason to think you have a flush/set/2 pair/AK, so if V has a flush what does shoving accomplish? Pretty much nothing other than you folding.

I agree that checking the flop gets rid of sets/2pair/AK from my range. So when I bet the turn I think my range is 99,TT,JJ,AT,AJ. If V is a thinking player, I'm not sure but he seemed competent , then his raise OTT is a great play. I fold everything except maybe TP.

When I call the turn, V has to know I have at least an ace. So he would only shove the river if he thinks I'll fold that or if he has the nuts (sets/flush).

His hand is polarized and I think it's 50/50

RESULTS:

I did end up calling. V turned over A7 for a rivered two pair. I guess my read was right that he didn't have a flush but I think when V bets the river I should still fold. It is interesting though. If the river was another club, would he still shove? If he thought his ace was good when he raised the turn, then it would still be good on a brick river. Idk, raising OTT with his hand just seems so weird to me.

Thanks for the replies

This

Please c-bet when you hit your hand ... and certainly c-bet when an Ace hits the board regardless of what you raised with. Although I would put him more on pp (bad set mine being HU but ..), AX is in his range as well from UTG. Make the flush draws pay, make him pay, make him believe you have AQ.

AP I call, and even re-raise/shove this Turn play by V. AT is bottom of my range to do this, but he didn't lead out on Turn, possibly trapping with AQ but he only raised $40 and you only have to call $40 into $110. By not leading and not raising enough to price out the flush draws, I am not putting him very strong here, more draws than made hands IMO. It's close, but you still have enough behind to get him to fold some hands out. (Not so much here since you didn't bet Flop, but in most cases it's close).

AP I am folding this River more than not, you are losing way more than winning. When V c/r and lead with these stack sizes it's rarely a bluff unless you have a very good read that he would use this card against you .. c/r may have been a semi-bluff, but to follow it up by shoving a stack with zero f/e out there is generally a strong type holding. GL