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Old 05-17-2017, 12:00 PM   #26
diskoteque
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Re: AQo in 3bet pot 2/5

Bet turn

Bet river
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Old 05-17-2017, 12:29 PM   #27
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Re: AQo in 3bet pot 2/5

If we bet turn - what turns are we checking? Do we ever have a check back range on the turn???
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Old 05-17-2017, 01:07 PM   #28
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Re: AQo in 3bet pot 2/5

You can check your give ups and sometimes your strong one pair + hands like AQx or KKx but for the most part just bet your whole continue range.

You can also check flop with the same hands I listed above and flop is a better place for a check if we are going to check anywhere imo
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Old 05-17-2017, 01:25 PM   #29
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Re: AQo in 3bet pot 2/5

Yup... checking turn is just begging to get pot potted on
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Old 05-17-2017, 02:06 PM   #30
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Re: AQo in 3bet pot 2/5

Quote:
Originally Posted by $FishWreck$ View Post
Grunching:

Not loving the 3-bet. Yes, he will call with many hands worse than AQ, but you'll be OOP at the bottom of your range against a tough opponent and it's nothing to be happy about. Once called, it still leaves you with an SPR of ~10, so it doesn't make your hand easier to play postflop OOP. Why bloat this against a villain you fear?
Against a button open from a decent player AQ should be pretty far from the bottom of our 3b range. Based on previous HHs, I'm guessing OP will be 3betting stuff like A3s/K7s/JTs/77+/KQ against this button open as well.

As for the river decision, normally I would prefer a bet. This is based on the notion that bet flop/check turn/bet river line can in general look pretty FOS, so we can get looked up a lot by stuff like KQ/QJ/JT. However, if we're really concerned about this guy's tendency to turn QJ into a bluff and bluff raise the river with a big bet, we may be better off to continue x/c mode with TPTK.

The tricky thing is that this villain might decide to bluff more often when we bet the river (figuring that he can more credibly rep big hands and get us to drop thin value sort of hands) than when we check since he knows that we might be looking to check/call. His value range can include 54s/64s/turned flushes/turned straight. There are a ton of of these combos and not a lot of stuff that completely whiffed, and we don't know how often he would take something with SDV and turn it into a bluff. We look silly when it goes check check and he rolls over QJ, but incorrectly b/f or b/c carries such a strongly negative EV that I think I wouldn't mind just x/c and making a note when we see his hand. There's also some chance we get the guy to value cut himself with KQ hoping that we have QJs.
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Old 05-17-2017, 03:21 PM   #31
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Re: AQo in 3bet pot 2/5

Quote:
Originally Posted by diskoteque View Post
Yup... checking turn is just begging to get pot potted on
If I'm advocating checking the turn it's to ck/call vs his large bluff range ott.

I dunno about everyone else.
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Old 05-17-2017, 03:39 PM   #32
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Re: AQo in 3bet pot 2/5

Right but you allow his whole flop call range (huge) free equity when you check turn. I want to be careful and not say "charge him" because people freak out at that kind of lingo but a better way of saying it is:

"If a ton of his range has decent equity vs us, may or may not bet turn, and will likely only bet river improved, we should just bet turn ourselves"

I used to check this turn as a standard and then rage tilt when the 4th spade rolls off and then rage tilt even more when villain shows down 99x or whatever retarded hand he has with a . This is why we can check some of our hands bc we don't need to protect our equity near as much and we fear less rivers.

When I started betting these turns I saw a marked improvement in my wr at the micros, and it has made live play much easier (and I am fairly sure more profitable)

Also recall that flushes are really hard to make in a 2 card game. It took me a lot of plo hours but basically i just never think anyone has a flush in nl anymore and I am usually right. (In general people way overestimate flushes)

Finally, there is alot we can do with our sizing in spots like this. Sizing is key.
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Old 05-18-2017, 02:32 PM   #33
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Re: AQo in 3bet pot 2/5

I don't mind checking the turn, you can balance your checking range with some nut flushes if your worried about V always attacking a checked turn, the river earlier I said c/c but after thinking about it I like bet/fold against most 2/5 players, one consideration since you said he was a good 5-10 reg playing down is how many times he turns pair + gutter type hands into jams on the river if you bet. I still think you get enough value from KQ,QJ hands to bet obv losing to nut flushes that checked the turn (I assume most of his flushes bet the turn)
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Old 05-18-2017, 03:48 PM   #34
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Re: AQo in 3bet pot 2/5

I think that depending on villain, for the turn:
chk/fold > bet/fold > chk/call (passive villain who will never bet unless they hit a flush, and who will often raise their turned flushes; in this case, just go for value until they let you know you're beat)
OR
bet/fold > chk/call > chk/fold (aggro villain who's often going to be somewhat autobalanced when you check on turn, showing up with various floats or underpairs that will bet to rep flush when checked to; in this case, chk/call might be a bit better than chk/fold, but betting feels better and it will be difficult for this villain to bluff you off the turn when you bet, especially if you have hands like A2s in your range).

Of course, there's the third type of villain (super bluffy maniac) who you'd just want to bet/call/gii...

As described, bet/fold feels best for your villain.
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Old 05-18-2017, 09:54 PM   #35
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Re: AQo in 3bet pot 2/5

Turn is a very clear barrel. Just checking AQ with a spade
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