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AKo preflop all-in for 90BB AKo preflop all-in for 90BB

04-17-2016 , 04:43 PM
Just come back from casino playing 2-4 NL. Effective stack is 360. Live straddle 8. UTG call 8 dark, MP call, Button call. I have AKo in the small blind and raise 42. BB and straddler folds. UTG re-raise to 150. MP and button folds. After some deliberation, I go all-in for 320ish more.

Vilain is active but nothing crazy. Hand range in my opinion is QQ, KK, AA, AK, maybe AQ and JJ but seems more unlikely. I have blockers to AA and KK.

Pot is 2+4+8+8+8+8+42 = 80. My odds are 320/80 so 4 to 1 if I am correct

Do you shove or fold ? Thanks for your comments
AKo preflop all-in for 90BB Quote
04-17-2016 , 07:19 PM
UTG reraised. There is 230 in the pot and you have another 320. Can't see shoving or folding as being bad and I prefer the shove.

Things to consider. Do you have some more buy ins to play? Will you get tilted if you lose? Do you have any FE? Is UTG going to feel committed with anything that makes that raise? UTG called dark so he will show up with AA/KK more then usual. If he is calling the straddle blind from UTG he is probably a gambling fish, so probably has a range wider then you suggest but more likely pairs then AQ/AJ and possibly a few suited connectors if he really wants to gamble.
AKo preflop all-in for 90BB Quote
04-17-2016 , 10:44 PM
V looked at his cards before raising right?

1. Your sizing is too small on the raise. Essentially 5x with the straddle and a bunch of bodies/dead money.

2. The "odds" in OP is SPR. Someone else will have to help you with SPR advice, personally I never bought the hype. Your odds (after UTG raises) are really 380/150 just over 2.5-1. You're not in great shape.

3. We are deep enough to where we can find a fold. If we were short we would have to shove.
AKo preflop all-in for 90BB Quote
04-18-2016 , 12:40 AM
Unless we are sufficiently bankrolled to re-buy and keep playing, I'm only calling the raise to see what the flop brings.

We're about 70% to miss the flop. This hand is ~ a coin flip against 2,2. At least seeing the flop, we have a better idea of what the proper flop action is.
AKo preflop all-in for 90BB Quote
04-19-2016 , 11:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by quemado
Unless we are sufficiently bankrolled to re-buy and keep playing, I'm only calling the raise to see what the flop brings.

We're about 70% to miss the flop. This hand is ~ a coin flip against 2,2. At least seeing the flop, we have a better idea of what the proper flop action is.
Not really smart to call $150, which is almost half of the effective stack, just to see the flop. AK's full advantage is seeing all 5 cards not just the flop. So if we are going to call $150 just to fold if we whiff then we might as well fold.

As played shoving and folding is pretty close. Calling is by far the worst option.
AKo preflop all-in for 90BB Quote
04-19-2016 , 01:25 PM
I would have raised to $60 to begin with.

Utg initially called dark then 3bet? I'm snap shoving. If he happened to pick up a hand that beats us, that's dumb luck. Otherwise I'd consider AK to be killing his range, plus there's dead money out there to be had.
AKo preflop all-in for 90BB Quote
04-19-2016 , 01:51 PM
If we're playing the hand, we need to be going all in. Also +1 to QuadJ's points as they are all very relevant.
AKo preflop all-in for 90BB Quote
04-19-2016 , 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattybangz
Not really smart to call $150, which is almost half of the effective stack, just to see the flop. AK's full advantage is seeing all 5 cards not just the flop. So if we are going to call $150 just to fold if we whiff then we might as well fold.

As played shoving and folding is pretty close. Calling is by far the worst option.
agree
AKo preflop all-in for 90BB Quote
04-19-2016 , 07:17 PM
Deleted... I got the action wrong.
AKo preflop all-in for 90BB Quote
04-19-2016 , 07:28 PM
All-in.
AKo preflop all-in for 90BB Quote
04-19-2016 , 07:51 PM
Edit: I think I got it right now.

Keep in mind that any money already put in the pot by you or villain belongs to the pot at the time of each decision.

Call of 4 bet:

Pot is 230 call is 108 (2.13:1)
So straight profitability of a call of his 4! is that you need 1/3.13 or 32% equity (to the flop) to call. But since there are unknowns you'll never be able to play flop perfectly. You'll continue when crushed (reverse implied odds) or fold the best hand (bluffed) some since v may well shove all flops. So a straight equity calc isn't very helpful if we are making a flop decision.

5 bet shove:

If you are considering a shove and assume villain will always call your shove then at the point of the preflop decision facing the utg 4! you can win a current pot of 230 + villains remaining 210 and your remaining shove amount of 320.

Amt you can win = 230+210=440
Amt it costs = 320
You are then getting 1.375:1 and need 1/2.375 or 42% equity for this to be break even.

If there is a chance v folds to shove you would calculate this as a semibluff where your fold equity to the existing pot + equity when called to the all in pot will be a weighted avg of equities to break even. But the simple answer is your shove opportunity is basically a 1.375:1 proposition.

The only thing I'll add to what's been said is that theoretically the straddle effectively cuts stacks in half in terms of blinds so this is similar to 45 bb situation.

Having said that many players don't adjust their ranges proportionally. In other words a villains felting range in this spot is likely stronger than his felting range if effective stacks were 180 with no straddle.

I agree flatting to hit a flop is not good.

So if v is wider than a range something like TT+ AQs AK a shove would be profitable.

As to SPR mentioned above it is a concept that applies to how we land on the flop. So it would only apply in that if we were to flat the 150 the pot would be 338 with 210 stacks behind or an SPR of less than 1. Indicating that any likely flop action will be all in.

Last edited by cAmmAndo; 04-19-2016 at 08:10 PM.
AKo preflop all-in for 90BB Quote
04-20-2016 , 01:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadJ
UTG reraised. There is 230 in the pot and you have another 320. Can't see shoving or folding as being bad and I prefer the shove.

Things to consider. Do you have some more buy ins to play? Will you get tilted if you lose? Do you have any FE? Is UTG going to feel committed with anything that makes that raise? UTG called dark so he will show up with AA/KK more then usual. If he is calling the straddle blind from UTG he is probably a gambling fish, so probably has a range wider then you suggest but more likely pairs then AQ/AJ and possibly a few suited connectors if he really wants to gamble.
This, but I never get why people play poker without more then one buy-in.
AKo preflop all-in for 90BB Quote
04-20-2016 , 10:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by thepieofdoom
This, but I never get why people play poker without more then one buy-in.
Because we don't feel like investing that much in it.

Having played full-time, now when I play it's purely for fun so I don't need multiple bullets.
AKo preflop all-in for 90BB Quote
04-20-2016 , 12:05 PM
MP limp reraise. You're raise is oop, so looks strong. Looks like classic AA limp reraise. At this depth folding is fine. Its <5% that an allin on the flop happens for full stacks and neither player shows up with kk or aa.

Every single time ive gotten 100bb in preflop with ak ive been behind
AKo preflop all-in for 90BB Quote

      
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