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Old 08-12-2017, 12:25 AM   #1
QuantumSurfer
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5/5/ TPTK facing c/rai OTT

V $595 eff. Asian guy in his 30's. Just lost a huge pot w/ J7cc. He called a pfr from the blinds in a 3way pot. Checked clubdraw flop that had an Ac on it. Turned the flush. He bet it, was raised, the 3rd guy called, he re-raised, then was re-raised AI, the 3rd guy folded, he tanked and called and was beaten by the nut flush.

Anyways, I open AQ in LP $20. CO+ Btn calls and he calls from the blinds.

$79

Q32

x, H$60, f, f, V calls

$199

2

x, H $120, V ai $515


I tanked for a while. The board is dry but he has random 2x combos in range as I assume he'd call almost ATC from the blinds + baluga. On the other hand, he could have some random pp, a draw, or just a weaker kicker. I was torn & scared of looking like a dumbass that stacks off with TPTK.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:35 AM   #2
Amanaplan
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Re: 5/5/ TPTK facing c/rai OTT

Not folding as played.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:44 AM   #3
CookbytheBook
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Re: 5/5/ TPTK facing c/rai OTT

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Originally Posted by Amanaplan View Post
Not folding as played.
some guys will always have something like 2d4d here.

op needs to somehow have the read that villain never ships draws here, never ships worse q's, and only ships hands that beats aces for this action.

Unless we have somehow figured out that lockdown read then this is a ez call.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:51 AM   #4
QuantumSurfer
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Re: 5/5/ TPTK facing c/rai OTT

Yeah... I think I just went on a streak of hitting the top of people's ranges recently & began thinking of the worst. My arm actually began counting the chips out and the fear part of my brain made me pause on the call. I listed out all I beat that'd be reasonable & then began thinking that he has all sorts of random A2 K2 type hands here.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:59 AM   #5
CookbytheBook
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Re: 5/5/ TPTK facing c/rai OTT

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Yeah... I think I just went on a streak of hitting the top of people's ranges recently & began thinking of the worst. My arm actually began counting the chips out and the fear part of my brain made me pause on the call. I listed out all I beat that'd be reasonable & then began thinking that he has all sorts of random A2 K2 type hands here.
Once they can have a deuce here then we know they are terrible. And then they usually fall into one of two categories. Either they are punty everywhere in which case you have super easy call and only pause a little so you dont give away how punty they are.

Or they are calling to improve and only piling in money once that happens. Which is the profile you make the hero folds vs. It shouldnt be that hard to pick up on these things once you realize they peel with an extremely wide range since their play will be so far out of whack.
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Old 08-12-2017, 02:09 AM   #6
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Re: 5/5/ TPTK facing c/rai OTT

Not folding, sucks if he has some random 2x here
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Old 08-12-2017, 02:15 AM   #7
Amanaplan
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Re: 5/5/ TPTK facing c/rai OTT

Don't care what he shows up with, point is that if we're taking a bet near pot flop, bet turn line on Q322s, we can't then tank, and fold for such a small amount. Turn is a snap call, you got what you wanted, all his chips in the middle. If he has you beat or 64cc gets there then so be it.
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Old 08-12-2017, 02:25 AM   #8
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Re: 5/5/ TPTK facing c/rai OTT

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Not folding, sucks if he has some random 2x here
Spoiler:
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:06 AM   #9
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Re: 5/5/ TPTK facing c/rai OTT

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Really bad fold.
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Old 08-12-2017, 03:15 AM   #10
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Re: 5/5/ TPTK facing c/rai OTT

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I was torn & scared of looking like a dumbass that stacks off with TPTK.
I agree with you that looking like a dumbass that stacks off with TPTK is ridiculous but also looks the same protecting a small hand by building a big pot and folding.

Why get committed by betting 33% of effective in the first place?

You basically made two errors. You built a big pot with a relatively small hand like TP, and because the pot got big, you got near pot-committed point. You could have improved your play at a number of ways. The bet on the flop was fine with one opponent, but on the turn didn't need to reach 33% of effective.

Ideally, you're hoping that the flop bet will take down the pot. Once your flop bet was called, and the turn didn't improve your hand, you have to consider very seriously whether there's any point to betting the turn. Betting here will create a very large pot of $320 for your hand. (way over 1/2 of effectives). Sure, I understand what you try to do, you want to keep the drawing hands expensive to beat you, but at the same time you got to balance between the strength of your hand and the size of the pot. If protecting your hand creates a big pot so the objectives contradict each other (keep pot small with a small hand and build it up with a big hand), you got to choose the action that hurts you the least. .., If he draws up .. wtf? .. so be it .., don't pay him off. If he miss his supposed draw, he may try to buy the pot on a missed draw and bluff at you, so you call.

Last edited by outdonked; 08-12-2017 at 03:23 AM.
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Old 08-12-2017, 10:40 AM   #11
SoulCrussher
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Re: 5/5/ TPTK facing c/rai OTT

OP, if you don't mind me asking. What LA casino are you playing 5/5 at?
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Old 08-12-2017, 10:52 AM   #12
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Re: 5/5/ TPTK facing c/rai OTT

Standard fold
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Old 08-12-2017, 11:05 AM   #13
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Re: 5/5/ TPTK facing c/rai OTT

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OP, if you don't mind me asking. What LA casino are you playing 5/5 at?
I'd rather wire you some $ instead of being bum hunted.
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:20 PM   #14
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Re: 5/5/ TPTK facing c/rai OTT

lol at people pretending like OP made some horrendous fold.

This is a tough spot. I probably would have sized down a little bit, but I think when I'm playing well I find a fold and when I am tilted I call this off.

OP did you even consider what you would do if villain jammed on you ott?
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Old 08-12-2017, 12:30 PM   #15
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Re: 5/5/ TPTK facing c/rai OTT

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OP did you even consider what you would do if villain jammed on you ott?
I usually don't think about that since it happens so infrequently, and since it does happen so infrequently, my general approach is to bet/fold. On this board though... I do see myself beating 1/3 of V's range.
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Old 08-12-2017, 04:29 PM   #16
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Re: 5/5/ TPTK facing c/rai OTT

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Originally Posted by SoulCrussher View Post
OP, if you don't mind me asking. What LA casino are you playing 5/5 at?
All the 4 major casinos around LA have the 5/5 NL. You can figure out where the game is without me mentioning their name. All the 4 major poker clubs around LA
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Old 08-13-2017, 02:28 AM   #17
Minatorr
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Re: 5/5/ TPTK facing c/rai OTT

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lol at people pretending like OP made some horrendous fold.

This is a tough spot. I probably would have sized down a little bit, but I think when I'm playing well I find a fold and when I am tilted I call this off.

OP did you even consider what you would do if villain jammed on you ott?
Yeah, this isn't a fist-pump call. I'd say it's slightly profitable, always calling here without a club blocker. We beat spazzed out weaker Qx that are trying to protect vs flush draws, combo draws, random yolo bluffs with or without clubs. Usually, if we can beat weaker "value bets" we can never ever fold our hand.
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Old 08-13-2017, 03:04 AM   #18
branch0095
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Re: 5/5/ TPTK facing c/rai OTT

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Originally Posted by QuantumSurfer View Post
Spoiler:
At least you did that part right. We all make bad decisions at the table, but realizing that you were flustered and most likely now on tilt, it shows good discipline that you were able to realize this and headed for the house.

It's really not fair for me to advise you on the hand after seeing the results, but all signs should have pointed to a call. You had a 30s Asian who just got stacked, the amount you had to call off really wasn't much for a 5/5 game, you're towards the top of your range here, and Vs value range is super thin. I'm in the camp that says this wasn't a fist-pump call and definitely not the worst fold in the world, but it's a spot where you just have to call it off and live with it if he spiked a deuce OTT. Honestly if I'd seen this thread when it started, all I would have needed to know is that you were playing in LA and I would have said CALL! LOL
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Old 08-13-2017, 10:03 PM   #19
SoulCrussher
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Re: 5/5/ TPTK facing c/rai OTT

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I'd rather wire you some $ instead of being bum hunted.
Curious honestly. This is game I play quite frequently in the area. I'm sure we have crossed paths.
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