Villian: young 20s kid , sat down about 30 mins before from another table with large stack of blacks .. has shown a lot of aggression and has already 3bet a couple of times including my open once when he was on the btn

Hand

Folds to decent reg in co (500) who opens to 20 . V (3k) on btn 3bets to 60. Hero (1200) is in SB and wakes up with QQhd. I decide to 4 bet to 210. CO folds , Villian asks my stack size and thinks a bit before making the call .

Flop

9T4ssx

I cbet 150 . (Too small?)
Villian calls pretty quickly

Turn

9T4Tx

Hero checks (???) .Villian checks .

River

9T4T8x

Hero checks (can I get called by wrose ? Obv JJ. I am never folding to a bet here fwiw. Not sure if i should bet small ? Or full value bet ?)

Thoughts??

I would bet the turn, possibly turn and river, you certainly need to bet two of these streets.... Villan is probably 5bering kk and aa here, so unless he has made a set we should be good, bet folding flop and turn, evaluate the river.

I agree with what Rabbit said above, 2 Streets of value is absolutely paramount here. The T on the turn isn't great, but there's plenty of other hands he could have. I would either bet turn then bet small on the river (40% pot maybe), or check turn with the intention to snap call villain river bets or value bet 65% pot on most rivers expecting to be called fairly light due to the 'weak' turn check

Do I have to lose my stack here if I'm already behind or if he catches up ? Should I even 4 bet ?

I'd be more inclined to flat the 3 bet if in position or with KK+. 4 bet is fine. Once he checks the turn and the river basically bricks out I'm feeling pretty good about things. You beat JJ and AK. One is certainly betting river and the other might bet if checked to in order to fold out JJ. There's only a couple combos hat you beat so try to let him bluff. Stinks if he value bets KK but that's just how it goes.

I would have bet $300 on the flop and shoved 690/1040 on the turn personally. Lot of missed value left on the table.

Ok I agree thats a valid option but you agree I must lose my stack then if I'm behind already ?

Yah if you flop an overpair on a 2.5x SPR pot that has straight draws and flush draws possible you're going to lose your stack when behind most likely.

You must lose your stack here. Unless you're an absolute boss and decide he has KK/AA/99 or 10x and you just c/f to a bet.

At no point am I check folding . Maybe if he fires turn and river . I just don't like the idea of bet folding either street which is why I checked turn

This is a textbook case of how to get stacked with tptk.

I don't follow

Tough to not get stacked here really....
What is a 4bet calling range going to look like...we dont give odds-on mine here, is this the sort of villan that knows that? His range should be pretty narrow, 99 - qq maybe, ak, aq? I doubt kk, I might flat aa to a 4bet to disguise strength. But vs that range I think we have to stack off.
Flop bet should be bigger, at least 250... This sets up an easy turn jam as mentioned above, then it's well played and a cooler if you lose,

Agree cooler for sure if I lose . One of worst flops for me . AK and JJ turns into only hands I beat and feel I can only get value from one of them . I do feel V knows he can't set mine vs this 4b

^ if villan knows he can't mine here he should also know that connectors also don't offer him any value either...you can therfore dismiss pretty much all possible t's unless we think he made quads...
99 is a possibility, but JJ has way more combos, as does ak, and aq.... I still think some combos of aa should be taken into account, especially if you have been seen to be aggressive....if it's 99 he got lucky, if it's aa we got owned, JJ for him and that's unlucky for him, ak and aq would fold to a bet on turn or river you would suspect.. if he turns up with anything else the guy is a fish, and will be easily exploited in the future.

Agree on this. Flop Cbet is really small ... you cant really narrow his range with something that small because of the price you made it. He could be continuing against you with any two.

And lol at whoever said V not getting odds to set mine. If im V im calling with pp here. Especially in live low stakes games where people only 4b with QQ+

In fact i will call the 4b for 150 more with any two at this point. Very easy to play perfect when you can narrow someones range to QQKKAA

I like the line.
Maybe I just suck but is he really floating flop with AK, other than AK spades?? If he only has that 1 combo, theres not much incentive to bet QQ ott, and our AA and KK make much more profitable bets than QQ.

So ott:

So we can lead bluff AK some (for lack of a bluffing hand) and value bet boats ( if any), AA, KK

check give up sometimes with AK, check call with QQ and JJ. Makes sense to me

It's easy to play 72o against a range of KK+ too, but that doesn't mean you should be calling 4 bets with it.

Agreed but after you 3b its a trivial call at this point in my opinion.

The problem I have with this logic is that based on your assigned range, jj is the only hand we are beating that will stack off on the turn. AK may float flop but is almost never calling turn shove. So when you shove turn you are hoping to get called by worse which is exactly jj only. I think this spot plays much better as a bluff catcher on turn/river.

I tried putting a range together for villain

Villains range after preflop = 55 combos.

AK (14) AQ (4) AJ (6) KQ (1) QJ (1)
KK (2) QQ (1) JJ (6) TT (6) 99 (6) 88 (4) 77 (3)

Villains range after flop = 19 combos.

TT (2) 99 (2) KK (2) QQ (1) JJ (6) 88 (2) 77 (1) AKss (1) AQss (1) QJ (1)

Villains range after turn = 12 combos, 11 if we take away QQ.

TT (1) KK (1) QQ (1) JJ (3) 88 (2) 77 (1) AKss (1) AQss (1) QJ (1)

9s Ts 4 T 8

If we bet the river now,
we lose to :TT, KK, 88, QJ. = 5 combos that will call / raise
we beat: JJ = 3 combos that will call

So I think we are best off check calling river.

After V flats and that T peels, i'm pretty much shipping the turn, even if it's an overbet. I don't rely on villains to bet for me in spots like this... I don't know why everyone's so keen on letting villains realize their equity against us. (Hint - they rarely just start bluffing in 4bet pots)

+1

We're trying to get full value from JJ, and every once in a glorious while we luck into folding out KK.