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2-5Nl Tricky Spot 2-5Nl Tricky Spot

06-26-2015 , 04:17 PM
I'm looking for the leaks in my game and want to post a few hands and get some opinions.

2/5NL 6 handed

Button Straddle to $15 ($3000 behind) (LAG more or less)
Small blind $2 folds
Big Blind $5(Hero) Call $10 with 6-7 hearts ($825)
UTG fold
UTG +1 Raise to $50 ($1000) (TAG more or less)
Cutoff folds
Button call $35
Hero call $35

Flop 9h, 5h, 2c

Hero check
UTG +1 $150
Button call $150
Hero call $150

Turn 3s
I tank - then all in $625

What do people think about this move? I will post the result after a few replies.
This game does allow for the possibility of multiple boards if all players agree and are all in
2-5Nl Tricky Spot Quote
06-26-2015 , 04:27 PM
I think pushing flop is better, also don't worry about plugging leaks in a livegame.
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06-27-2015 , 06:07 AM
I agree about jamming the flop. Why check call the flop, only to lead out on the turn all-in, when a brick hits. It's a fishy looking play to the villians.
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06-27-2015 , 11:34 AM
Jam the flop. You have ~45 % vs an overpair, there's most likely dead money in the pot and you have tons of fe.
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06-27-2015 , 02:56 PM
I think PF is just a fold I wouldn't complete the straddle, I think it's going to get raised pretty often if i thought there would just be more limps behind I may consider completing.
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06-28-2015 , 05:02 PM
Thanks for the replies.
Why not worry about leaks live? That's all I'm playing at the moment...
I agree this should have been a PF fold, given position and players at the table.
Now that I was in though...
Turn wasn't a brick for me at all, but I agree, probably looks fishy to the others and that is my problem...
The thinking in jamming the turn instead of the flop is that someone with two overs or some other draw is more likely to fold now after the "brick". Question - is it scarier to the villains that I have a set if I make the move here or on the flop?
After my action, UTG+1 (original raiser) tank folded after a speech. He later said he folded Qh Jh - success so far. Button tank called after a speech with 4c 5s. We agree to run three rivers. Brick, brick, brick. See ya later stack. Clearly should have won 1/3 given odds.
2-5Nl Tricky Spot Quote
06-28-2015 , 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slinga
Why not worry about leaks live? That's all I'm playing at the moment...
First of all, few hands are played in a live format, so leaks are much tougher to discover. Maybe the basics like fold vs flop cbet or fold vs 3bet you could get a grasp on in a session or two, but even those two really requires several hundred or even thousands of hands played to be somewhat accurate (not to mention stuff like 3barrels, which may need tens of thousands of hands played).
Card distribution - and variance in general - have huge impact in small sample games.
I'm sure everyone who's played live have endured long periods of being card dead, for example.

Secondly, nobody obviously has a hud to remember all the stuff, so one if left storing everything in the brain.

Most importantly, live players in general are not good enough to exploit leaks, so my recommendation is to only care about immediate EV. The chances of you ever gaining back the money spent on protecting your capped range are ridiculously small.

Reads are obviously super important in any game and shouldn't be neglected, but I can guarantee you that it's a better investment to check what your neighbour is drinking, rather than worrying about plugging your own leaks.
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07-08-2015 , 02:09 PM
What are we repping when we stuff the turn? Are we always raising our sets on the flop?

If we're always raising sets (Which I feel we probably are), we need to get it in with flush draws to stay balanced.

I would be raising flop and getting it in all day.
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07-08-2015 , 02:48 PM
I agree I think you need to shove flop here. When you flat on the flop you are losing a lot of equity if you brick the turn, plus you are much more likely to get both people to call you if you shove the flop rather than the turn which would obv. increase you're EV unless one of them has a higher flush draw.
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07-08-2015 , 03:01 PM
Rather sqz than call pre. Often folding especially wth the straddle
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07-08-2015 , 03:04 PM
fold pre
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07-08-2015 , 03:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by pokerarb
Rather sqz than call pre. Often folding especially wth the straddle
Interesting approach. I like the idea but only if Hero hasn't been 3betting pre/squeezing very often before the hand - since you are looking for fold equity with a squeeze pre in this case.
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07-08-2015 , 03:35 PM
Calling a preflop raise for >16% of your stack with a small suited connector OOP first to act is the definition of spew. As played, I prefer a turn check-raise shove. You picked up 3 more outs for 15 total. I think flop check raises are just weighted too heavily to draws that you get looked up too often. Turn check-raise is a much stronger move, gets more money in the pot and ideally adds to your FE. If you get folds 20% of the time this should be break even at worst.

But yah, I'm folding this pre.
2-5Nl Tricky Spot Quote
07-08-2015 , 04:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
Calling a preflop raise for >16% of your stack with a small suited connector OOP first to act is the definition of spew. As played, I prefer a turn check-raise shove. You picked up 3 more outs for 15 total. I think flop check raises are just weighted too heavily to draws that you get looked up too often. Turn check-raise is a much stronger move, gets more money in the pot and ideally adds to your FE. If you get folds 20% of the time this should be break even at worst.

But yah, I'm folding this pre.
Methinks you misread the OP.

As played, CRAI flop.
As played to the turn, I guess it's fine, as CRAI isn't feasible given SPR.
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07-08-2015 , 05:16 PM
Grunch.

Fold pre. Suited connectors are crap OOP in a bloated pot.

I check/jam the flop. We've got FE and good equity against any made hand. We may even be able to fold out better flush draws.
2-5Nl Tricky Spot Quote
07-08-2015 , 05:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nirwanda
First of all, few hands are played in a live format, so leaks are much tougher to discover. Maybe the basics like fold vs flop cbet or fold vs 3bet you could get a grasp on in a session or two, but even those two really requires several hundred or even thousands of hands played to be somewhat accurate (not to mention stuff like 3barrels, which may need tens of thousands of hands played).
Card distribution - and variance in general - have huge impact in small sample games.
I'm sure everyone who's played live have endured long periods of being card dead, for example.

Secondly, nobody obviously has a hud to remember all the stuff, so one if left storing everything in the brain.

Most importantly, live players in general are not good enough to exploit leaks, so my recommendation is to only care about immediate EV. The chances of you ever gaining back the money spent on protecting your capped range are ridiculously small.

Reads are obviously super important in any game and shouldn't be neglected, but I can guarantee you that it's a better investment to check what your neighbour is drinking, rather than worrying about plugging your own leaks.
Interesting points. I think it's a matter of semantics - we should look to plug our own leaks but the vast majority of our profits will come from exploiting the leaks of our opponents.

That's why most people feel at LLSNL feel balance is over-rated in a decent-sized player pool.
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