Playing a hand out at a 2/5 cash game I was in yesterday ...

Hero: 44 in SB with $1400 or so behind.

Villain: BTN, $1200 behind, rec player, relatively new to the table from a broken game ... looks like a former bodybuilder. Loud. Brash. Bald ... but TAG for sure. He has never been out of line. Not once.

UTG+2 opens for $15, two calls to Villain who splashes a bunch of chips. Turns out to be $55.

Hero calls with the intention to set-mine. There are two other callers but these players will not matter in the hand.

Flop is a beautiful 842, two spades.

Hero checks (??), checks to Villain who splashes $90. Hero raises to $205. Villain INSTA-SHOVES FOR $1200 AND LITERALLY JUMPS OUT OF HIS SEAT IN EXCITEMENT.

But wait, there's more ... as hero tanks, Villain sits back in his seat but yaps and yaps about his hand, eventually turns to Hero and says "I'll be completely honest with you, I'm on a flush draw!"

So everrrrrything about this suggests the Villain has Hero beat ... but Hero has top set.

Who's folding? Who's already decided on a snap-call?

Board is 8-4-2 and we have middle set right?

High five dealer allin. Turbocalling Phil Hellmuth style.

As played, snap call.

You lose to exactly 88, which this player probably doesn't even 3! with.

Fold pre. The betting is re-opened and you are OOP. It's tough to make ~$550 every time that you flop a set.

I'm curious how many of you would have folded 44 pre?

Folding pre yeah. The direct implied odds for calling the 55$ is decent, but as BackDoor mentioned we are out of position so its harder to maximize our value when we flop the set+ the betting is re-opened, so were torching off 55$ pre being forced to fold everytime preflopraiser decides to come over the top and 4 bet.

So all in all i am dumping this pre pretty easily.

Preflop is a fold.

Not snapcalling the flop jam is a massive nit-roll

Pre is an atrocity. Considering folding flop is a farce.

This is very bad stuff.

I've folded middle set on a non straight, non flush flop exactly one time in my life. It was relatively obvious the guy had a set of aces and I didn't think much about it.

This situation is not even close to a fold. Snap call sorry you lost.

Fold pre. Snapcall flop.

who cares if you lost or won. Variance if you lost to a flush draw. if you lost set over set and he had 88 oh well happens.

80% of this time this goes snap call he has KK or AA and you scoop.

smh at this post i wasted every keystroke on.

Obvious snap-call, fold pre

These 2 players and their stack sizes are extremely important to the hand. If you cold call $55 (pot is already $105) 44 is totally playable 240 bbs deep. So if they call the pot becomes $215 going to the flop.

You flop middle set. Call it off. Don't play deep if you can't call this off. It's exactly what you wanted.

was the 8 a spade?

He could have a bdfd with top set and still remain semi honest (or AA with a spade).

fwiw when people "splash" money like that pre and otf, it's usually a big pair or a big hand. It's hardly ever pocket 8's.

Regarding pre, we have 3 people calling 15, one raises to 55 and your next to act - flatting often entices the other people to flat as well using a domino effect so we should expect at least another player or two to call if we call, so it depends on their stacks. If it was heads up or last to act two ways then it's an easy fold but we should be multi way here so calling is not that bad if stacks of the other people are deep.

When you tanked, he started to think his aces were ahead, so of course he wanted you to call.

Call the flop

poker is dead

How is this even a decision

I wouldn't fold pre with the exact dynamic that has been provided. It's pretty close though and probably a fold.

I'd lead flop half pot.

As played your x/r needs to be alot bigger.

OK, great responses. Exactly what I was hoping for. Thank you. Sorry, Aceholio, but poker is ALIVE!!!

I was not involved in the hand but thought it was interesting. Hero was to my right, Villain was to HER right. Villain indeed had 88 and won the massive pot after Hero's call.

After the hand, I quietly suggested to Hero that she not get involved in the pot with 44 and she argued that she absolutely should have, basically for the reasons DLonnigan listed. So I thought I'd lay the hand out on 2p2 to see how many of you would have folded the 44 pre. Most of you would have, as would I. But I see DLonnigan/Hero's side of it too ... the rationale is right on, the flop result was just nasty luck.

Well your biggest leak is discussing anything resembling actual strategy at the table.

If she's hot and you are interested just be quiet / good at poker / totally ignore her existence. She'll come to you.

Lol

did the villain actually look a hot girl in the eyes and lie to her like that lol poker degenerates

so did villain have the 8 or is he a lying liar?

he was a lying liar

Snap call. He's got QQ/KK/AA. People get too excited with those hands. He's not 3-betting 88. He might have AKs and telling the truth, I met such players. Snap snap snap 1000 times.
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Oh, I see the results only now. I'd snap anyway. Only 88 we lose to. But fold pre to that 3-bet also would save the $ in the long run. **** happens lol

they suck

Snap call for me. All the bolded actions above are overtly representing strength, which to me comes from weakness/uneasiness. If I am dead wrong, then he could be playing AA and believe he has the best hand. Very rarely are we set-over-set here, so even if I'm wrong, I'm right.

EDIT: Guess when I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I still wouldn't regret my decision. Reload and keep playing, villain will give it all back anyway, judging by this hand.