2/5, effective stacks $580, 6-handed

V (UTG, $600)limps
UTG+1($260) limps
CO folds
BTN folds
Hero ($580) completes A2 <<< bad?
BB ($240) checks

Flop ($20): T42
Hero checks, BB checks, V bets $10, UTG+1 folds, Hero c/r to $35, BB folds, V 3bets to $60, Hero calls

I'm pretty confused in these spots where I flop pair+FD/NFD type hands whether I should take a b/c, b/3b, c/r or c/c line... this time, I elect to c/r because of no reads on V (new) and being pretty sure his flop 3b is pretty strong

Turn ($140): 7
Hero checks, V bets $105, Hero folds

Hand seems fine.

I'm OK completing pre w/ Ax suited.

c/r on the flop is also fine. I may have gone a little bit bigger, say $45 or 50, but that's nit-picking. Once he min-3 bets the flop, he's projecting a ton of strength, and we have to take seriously the possibility that he has a set and that an A or a 2 doesn't improve us. We still have 9 outs to the nuts so calling seems fine.

On the turn, I don't think we're getting very good odds any more, so folding is fine.

Hand seems well played to me.
Definitely complete Ax suited in small blind.
Flop raise vs flat is only spot I'm not totally sure about as well but think raising is okay (interested in others thoughts here)
Definitely call flop 3! With nut draw getting great odds and turn check fold to his sizing looks good as well

Yea, I'm just completing out of the SB with all A2-AJ suited in most cases.

It may just be my style but I generally like just calling here due to flush over flush possibilities and the fact that there isn't much to rep with a check-raise besides 53cc or a set.

UTG limps always feel like pairs to me, could be 22, could be AA or anything in between. But after you check-raise and he re-raises it goes without saying you're behind.

I'm definitely not c/c the turn here. Don't mind the c/f, better spots will come up.

With an UTG limper and two short stacks I don´t think this is the best spot to squeeze. Calling seems like the only reasonable option.

I´d bet the flop. Board is fairly dry, we have a ton of equity, I think we can take it down UI frequently enough OTF or with a double barrel OTT. I much prefer to be the aggressor.

If you went for the c/r because you thought UTG with 99-55 heavy, 1/2 psb was a sizing tell, I think the small 3! sizing is pretty good if we are definitely double barrelling the turn for a decent amount. I´m pretty happy to let him put money in with hands that are ''drawing'' for one street to 2 outs.

Well played. I would have led flop but it's fine either way.

Villian is repping thin at 44, 22 (4 combos) unless he went for LRR with KK+

Some physical reads would be nice

Call Pre - 4 to the flop. Cool.
Ck-c flop! - why on earth is everyone ck-r?! It's not fine whatsoever. Stay open and hope to induce call from BB.

AP, you managed to dump $50 more otf only to ck-f your equity on the turn against a range that can easily include every other FD in the deck.

Butchered.

Played fine. Completing pre is fine. I like the c/r. You have 14 outs against one pair hands (except AA). You're fine if it folds around. You have plenty of real and bluff outs if he calls with Tx. It's hard to play flush draws passively oop because they're so obvious.

The min-3! is weird. It's clear the villain isnt going anywhere. Without FE, just call. You're getting good odds to hit a flush on the turn. C/f makes sense after a big turn bet. You can't know for sure your A and 2 outs are good. Oop limits your ability to get paid if you spike a club on the river.

nothing wrong with how you played that.

I would have preferred to bet out on the flop and start building a pot right away with as much equity as you had in that hand. but a CR is fine.

V min clicking it back on the flop is super strong and is repping a set, so nothing wrong with the fold.

just ignore this jibberish. to range the villian with a possible FD when he has position and would just call 95% of the time is just silly. and then describing the hand as butchered is even sillier.

Hand definitely wasn't butchered IMO
I think this might be a great time to lead the flop and call a reasonable raise. Leading out into a field from the SB shows a lot of strength and gives you more FE than a normal donk bet would. Then you can face a raise and just call (instead of a reraise) knowing you are up against a made hand.

I think played fine.

I'm really curious about what to put V on. Why the min-raise? Three-betting for pot control? He's got a customer that has said "I have a hand". If V has a set, he should be gunning to get stacks in. $120 on the turn isn't going to make that easy. Why not make it $75 or $80. Does he think you're calling $60, but not $75? Even if that doesn't ensure stacks by the river, it's certainly going in the right direction.

JJ+ should be pretty unlikely. Maybe some gross 2P ("I always play T2s! Doyle says they're grrrreat!")

The standard answer is "well, LLSNL players make a lot of mistakes", but is the min-raise here really usually a set or 2P?

Color me confused.

The min-3 bet on the flop is basically never a draw. He's repping only a set or maybe two pair. post-flop 3-bets in LLSNL are super rare and always represent strength.

I generally like your posts, so for constructive reasons can you explain your thought process? I actually believe your assumptions are leaks, and I'd like to absorb how they aren't.

Given the lack of info, how can you so assuredly dismiss most FDs as jibberish, yet at the same time reliably assign weight to such a super narrow 7 combos just from his UTG limp, bet small, min 3b line? Further, how are you able to dismiss 21 OP combos from his range that reasonably might take the same line.? Doing so incorrectly costs hero at least 20% in equity by the riv and drastically alters the decision tree incorrectly.

I maintain that a ck-c is always better than a ck-r for reasons I made in my first post. (And yea betting is better too) Narrowing V here while narrowing ourselves is not in the best interest of this strong of a draw in a limped pot, and that in and of itself is another pretty substantial leak that I observe many good players doing. It's another issue entirely, and there often are times when polarizing OOP with a draw this strong is going to have its benefits, but when the pot is so small and we can get 3 players to see a turn, a call is far and above the better of the two lines discussed.

Backing up to Vs range, OK, given no reads we should play as straight up as possible. Until he's evidenced to be a clown capable of taking this line with a naked FD, we can assume he's less weighted in them, but again, it's just not reasonable to assume his line and ridiculous sizing to be a range that hero has 30% equity against...

Think you can lead or x'c flop, if you're x'r it should be to jam over a 3b

Amana, I like your line to c/c.. but this is what I observe happens all the time..

Turn is a brick, V bombs, Hero c/folds

Turn is a club, V checks back and folds to Hero's lead OTR or Hero leads turn and V folds anyway.. At worse, he might call a tiny bet OTR

In short, I find it difficult to get any/much value in these situations

^ So what you're really saying is..... Fold Pre?

But does your post indicate you're taking the b/f line or the c/r AP line.

^ Yeah, but then again folding pre seems super nitty as well. It seems that if I flat, there are only two ways I'm going to end up winning a lot in this spot: a) V has a lower flush OR b) I have a super bluffy image (which I don't). And sometimes when he has a 2p+ hand which is still rare.

Don't forget the BB is still to act.

A call may drag BB in with weak holdings 9T, 8T or best case is a small flush draw.

True when the turn bricks we're dead but its a lower risk play for a good/possibly great reward when a club hits.

With V in position I doubt he's going to fold any T or JJ+ to a single c/r. We'll end up having to fire again to win the pot when the turn bricks or give up.

That being said a c/r is going to get folds a fair amount of time, but a c/c on the flop is overall better.

These are just high frequency outcomes when the most obv draw completes ott, but really only against the weakest parts of a range. If you keep V open, there are parts of his range that will likely call one street, parts that call two, and occassionally you find his gii range against which you have 79-100% eq.

Though a bit exaggerated, I labeled this hand as butchered because you played it in such a way that you were forced to fold your equity against the parts of Vs range that actually WOULD have given you 1+ streets of value on club turns. To boot, your ck-r slashed those VBs given the 10Bb premium you surrendered just to see the turn.

I think there is merit in simplifying lines/seeing how things develop when super wide (limped) ranges interact on dynamic boards. There's a better than average chance you're playing against someone who is going to make poor postflop decisions (the hallmark of LLSNL) and one of the best ways I've found to exploit that is to pay as little as possible to realize my equity when IO are there and spend less time semi-bluffing against players who typically call too much to begin with. I mean, EV trees are complex enough with defined ranges, so I think if you take these less fancy/expensive/difficult lines it will make it less 'difficult' to find value in spots like this.