From a 2/5 hand last night ...

Hero: $700 in front, playing TAG.

Villain: New to the table with ~$450. Literally the first or second hand he's been dealt.

Hero gets KK in MP. Villain has already limped. Hero makes it $20. Four callers includes Villain.

Flop 23Qr

Checked to Hero, who bets $125. Folds to Villain who shoves for over $400.

Again, we know nothing about the Villain, but most folks would at least raise pre w/ QQ, and I don't know how many people would limp/call with Q3, Q2 or 23. We can beat AQ, KQ, QJ, QT, and we're ahead of 45, A4, A5, bus is he shoving with those?? We're way behind vs AA (unlikely for the same reasons as QQ), 33 and 22.

Call or fold?

1) Bigger raise pre after a limp. You got yourself 4 callers, thats too many when we have KK. When you get 4 callers for 20$, you could probably go with 30$ in this spot.

2) Size down your flop C-bet. The board is bone dry, no need at all to go full pot and that way narrowing down the hands youre getting further action from. You want hands like Q10 suited or QJ in the hand, or 77 or 88 thats getting stubborn and want to see if you maybe just C-betting with AK. Those hands are the ones you should target for value, so full pot sized bet is just way too big in my opinion= your enticing to many hero folds from hands you want in this hand.

3) Kind of a sigh call with no info at all on villains tendencies. We only lose to set of 2 or 3 the way the hand was played out, i believe there is enough strong Q combos that is going to the felt here with a bloated 5 way pot pre.

Yeah, sizing in this hand is not very good at all.

AP call

Flop sizing is crazy

Call it

All of the above sizing error comments are right. Bet 40-60 range on flop depending on how you feel about the other opponents in the hand. Flops don't get any safer than this one mon ami

AP call and whatever you prob win. Sucks if you lost to 22 or 33. oh well.

Guess we're not gonna get much more feedback ... here's what happened ...

Hero called the shove, board runs out J, 8 and villain shows a set of deuces for the win.

I agree completely with all of the comments above, and the good news is ... I was actually the Villain in the hand, not the Hero.

I think this hand, shown from the POV of KK, shows a) the vulnerability of premium hands in early position preflop, and b) evidence that overbetting can be very bad. KK's $125 flop bet is a textbook example of the phrase "you're only going to get called by hands that can beat you."

I'd welcome any additional talking points on either of these things.