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Old 05-17-2017, 03:06 PM   #26
spikeraw22
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

I think this comes down to regional experience with a specific population. Safe bet is to fold in most cases, but I definitely play in some games where it doesn't matter what the guy looks like, it's an easy jam with AK. Other games I'm lol folding.
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Old 05-17-2017, 03:19 PM   #27
bigcountry85
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

Call and for me its an easy one with most hands than I am opening in this spot. The sizing is absolutely too small for me to fold.

Villain looks like OMC but we don't know enough about him at this point. Even OMC will show up with KK, QQ, AKs and for spunky OMC sometimes JJ.
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Old 05-17-2017, 03:45 PM   #28
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

I folded and he didn't show. Bleh. Left a nasty taste in my mouth.
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Old 05-17-2017, 04:02 PM   #29
Axel Foley
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lapidator View Post
IME, the 11am UTG limp-3b from octogenarians is 99.9999% AA and 0.0001% ATC that looked like AA to 80 year old cataract afflicted eyes.
To be fair, I've looked at A4o a few times and initially saw rockets with my 20:13 vision.

As for the hand, I feel like this is a spot where we could call getting better than 3:1 if we were a button raiser but can fold from the blinds. We have to give this OMC a very strong range when he does this and will therefore not love getting stacks in when he goes bet/bet on king high boards. He'll end up being well balanced between chops and AA/KK when that happens (8 of the former, 7 of the latter...maybe a few oddly played QQ that now think we have AQ and want to "protect" as well). Also don't expect to make a lot of money when he has KK and flop comes A high.

Now when we're the button raiser and call his small raise we stand a better chance of making money on A high boards against the KK in his range. He could get frustrated and just x/c three streets in that instance. Also seems like it would be easier to fold turns correctly since his turn bets could no longer be in response to our check, making OMC more wary about going for value with AK.
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Old 05-17-2017, 04:07 PM   #30
Chunky Still Funky
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

Old Guy limp reraises from UTG . If you seriously think he's going to show up with anything other than Aces here then you're crazy
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Old 05-17-2017, 04:08 PM   #31
Ihadtrips
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

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Originally Posted by spikeraw22 View Post
Hero should maybe reconsider 3 betting UTG opens from ancient unknown old men.

I know betting for information is often bad but doesn't it make sense here? If he has aces or kings he jams, if he has something like KQ AQ or 9-jacks he folds or flats and we can probably win the pot i feel like for a small 3 bet we can play the hand almost perfectly against him. The only time i think we get in trouble 3 betting is if he decides to rip it in with queens and we fold. Even that's not that bad.
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Old 05-17-2017, 05:06 PM   #32
Ihadtrips
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

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Originally Posted by DeathCabForTootie View Post
even vs only QQ+ we have 34% which is enough to at least call
Not really though. If we miss the flop he bets and we fold we don't get to realize our equity. We also have terrible RIO vs AA and KK and his only rio is if we basically flop a straight.
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Old 05-18-2017, 02:15 AM   #33
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

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Originally Posted by Lapidator View Post
IME, the 11am UTG limp-3b from octogenarians is 99.9999% AA and 0.0001% ATC that looked like AA to 80 year old cataract afflicted eyes.
this. instaturbo muck it.
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:10 PM   #34
LittlePud
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

Easy fold.

I've even pulled a "$50 if you show anything other than aces or kings" once, and didn't get shown the hand.
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Old 05-18-2017, 10:13 PM   #35
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

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I think this comes down to regional experience with a specific population.
imo
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Old 05-19-2017, 05:45 AM   #36
Kritecia
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

Standard fold for me. Limp then 3bet from a old man is typically extremely strong. From my experience, limp 3bet range is usually QQ+ AK. Your AK probably dont do that well vs this range so not even worth it to risk anymore chips

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Old 05-21-2017, 01:34 AM   #37
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarretman View Post
Straddle is on $500 effective
Game is 11am on a Wednesday
Fold
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Old 05-21-2017, 01:38 AM   #38
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

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Originally Posted by diskoteque View Post
Folding is horrendous
In all seriousness, I actually do agree with this given lack of real info. Also in order to remove that bad taste from your mouth, simply commit to a crystal clear strat for AK at <100bb (always shoving/never shoving) and stick to it.
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Old 05-21-2017, 02:32 AM   #39
Redskins 47
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

Rip it in and flop a flush.
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Old 05-21-2017, 03:33 AM   #40
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

Fairly read-dependent decision. Folding is fine.
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Old 05-21-2017, 05:51 AM   #41
cicakman
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

55 is such an awful size from the sb here.
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Old 05-21-2017, 12:59 PM   #42
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

OMC at 11 am on Wednesday with the game just opening?!?!?!

Turbo-muck unless I saw he has his wallet stuffed to $100s. He isn't risking having to leave the table this early and facing his wife for the rest of the afternoon.
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Old 05-21-2017, 03:04 PM   #43
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

Just to be clear, V L/RR from UTG for 25% of effective and a large absolute amount.

Flatting seems like a bad idea. We're going to be OOP with no good strategy to extract value against his range on the vast majority of flops. This isn't solvable with equity, since that assumes we see all five board cards.

Assuming we're jamming or folding:
When it gets back to us, pot contributions are:
Straddle: 10
UTG: 120
BTN: 10
SB: 55
BB: 5
200 in the pot.

We have 445 behind. If we jam, we'll be risking 445 to win 580 (the 200 in the pot plus the 380 he has behind after his 120).

Worst case, let's say he has KK+. If we jam, he calls and we have 23% equity for -$208 EV.

Best case, let's say he has TT+, AK and he folds all but KK+, AKs. That's a total of 33 combos, of which he's folding 24.

24/33 we win $200
9/33 we have 32% equity for EV -$116.
Total EV is $114.

We'd need him to have the best case scenario at least 65% to break even.

The more of his range he folds to the jam or the looser his range, the better off we are. The tighter his initial range, the worse off we are.

I'm very happy with a fold here. If it's positive at all, I think the jam is thin for us and if he's a real nit, it's fat value for him. I'm guessing around 50% of the time OMC's UTG L/RR range is KK+, and if that's true, we're crushed even if the other 50% of the time he's actually really loose.

I'd sigh fold.
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Old 05-21-2017, 04:21 PM   #44
LittlePud
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

Have we ever seen this V show down a hand after a L/RR? If not, I'd be tempted to say "I'll give you $20 if you show a card that's neither an A or a K."
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Old 05-21-2017, 05:06 PM   #45
Jarretman
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

Quote:
Originally Posted by cicakman View Post
55 is such an awful size from the sb here.
How come?
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Old 05-21-2017, 05:20 PM   #46
Petrucci
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

OMC range with this line is so fully packed with KK and AA combos that i make an exploitative fold here, and its the right thing to do.

Yeah there are some differences in populations as mentioned earlier ITT, but overall we have every reason to believe we are up against a freaking nutted range here.
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Old 05-21-2017, 05:24 PM   #47
Rich Checkmaker
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarretman View Post
Straddle is on $500 effective

Game is 11am on a Wednesday

Villain is unknown really old man who looks like a nit, but never played with him before and the game just opened.

Hero is young white guy with AKcc

Preflop, villain limps $10 UTG, BTN limps, hero raises to $55 from SB, villain raises to $120, BTN folds, hero?
grunching but this fold is not ridiculous. continuing would be ridiculous. old man limp UTG raise is AA.
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Old 05-22-2017, 12:31 AM   #48
Pork Fri Rize
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Re: 2/5 I want to make a ridiculous fold preflop

Stop waking up so early to play with a bunch of OMC's


/thread


still folding though.
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