Originally Posted by 11t

Firstly, If you aren't willing to sit with the max at a table of 100xbb I'd suggest moving down stakes unless you are going to short stack pushbot at 20xbb. Obviously there might be extraneous circumstances such as max buy in or w/e but I simply assume the max buy in is 100xbb.

The problem with limp raising are these:

1) You aren't maximizing your hourly rate by getting as much value as you should from your top tier hands
2) You are telegraphing your hand, and especially with something like JJ the range of hands that are continuing against you has a lot of equity versus your range
3) You don't know utg+3 is going to raise here and you don't know utg+5 is going to 3-bet. You aren't a psychic so lets not pretend we are. If utg+3 likes to bully is he 3-betting light or just attacking limpers? OP claims he is open raising to steal the blinds but he is in MP so we can't really infer that either. The entire premise of limp raising is a lack of willingness to make difficult decisions and an attempt to win a pot preflop and if somebody calls you, you are likely in trouble. It would likely be better to use a truly polarized range here and only limp/reraise with AA and 65s and 98s because if the entire table is at 50xbb people see the limp rr and go "fml he has AA/KK" and if somebody continues in the hand against you they likely have QQ+.

Yes sometimes you will raise PF utg with JJ and a chain of people will call and you will not win the pot, but sometimes you will spike a set and win a massive pot and sometimes (~40% of the time) there will be no overcards and you will win the pot and sometimes it will be folded around but winning poker requires putting yourself in spots where you maximize your wins and minimize your losses. Limp reraising here with JJ minimizes your wins and maximizes your losses. Limp reraising with AA/KK here just minimizes your wins. If we were to draw a map where "amazing poker player" was a location, limp reraising would be the distances furthest from.

All of our lives would be better, our win rates higher, and I could sound less pedantic if we simply removed this move (and I stand by calling it a donkey move) from our tool box.

Originally Posted by vegez

2-5 NL live
i have jacks under the gun, i decide to limp in and go for the check raise,
utg+3 opens for 15, utg +5 raises to 45, action on me?


i know utg +3 likes to bully the table and steal blinds and will raise with any ace rag etc... so i give him no credit for having a big hand, i am almost certain from prior experience and his bet sizing that utg +5 has AK, i have about $250 and i barely cover utg +5, is it okay to shove allin here knowing that utg +5 will call?

if i had queens does the shove allin become more positive ev?

Originally Posted by djevans

limp re raising is usually bad - but if u got a player at the table that you are 90% sure is going to raise his hand, and you know he will than it's not bad.

I saw a pro do it once he was $400 deep at 3/6NL 6max and he was UTG with 88. He limped in for $6 and this aggressive button raised it, and we 3bet, and he shoved all in and we called and he had A2! He did manage to hit an ace on the flop, but it still made me question that maybe limp reraising isn't that bad of a play if you have aggressive donks at the table.