Villain moved over from the must move recently, he's young, looks like a regular, and has been chatting about poker with another regular.
V2 is barely in the hand but is loose, thinks about what hands people has but doesn't care about the money so ends up playing/calling too much

Hero shouldn't have much of an image to v1 but she's youngish looking, has a huge stack in front of her, and has a reputation for being a blaster.

$900 effective

Villain opens $15 UTG+1, v2 flats, I call with KQ in the BB, 3 ways to the flop

Flop: KQT ($45)
I check, V1 bets $30, V2 calls, I make it $100, V1 fairly quickly makes it $250, V2 folds, I call

-3bets on the flop live are so nutted I kinda want to fold right here, but I block top sets and I'm folding most of my raising range if I fold KQ here, so I call

Turn: 5 ($545)
I check, villain bets $325 (has ~$300 behind)

Donk flop. As played flat. As played fold to the $250.

Not sure I call from BB with this hand. So easily dominated -- here we are with top two and it's not looking good. V raised from EP, but only $15? I think I'd rather 3bet that dinky $15 raise. Is that the norm for this V regardless of holding? Seems awfully small for 2/5.

On flop, I'd raise more, but I would probably fold to the 3bet. That's a pretty scary board, and V is not worried about a check/raise from a young woman in the BB. If you are calling the 3bet on the flop, what changes on the turn? That's a great card for you. You do block top sets. What range do you give V?

Does not look as if V is folding turn. If there is a good chance he's on a draw (and might be trying to "outplay" a woman), gii. If you think he's nutted, just fold. Really read-dependent.

I think your instinct to fold flop is the right one. What hands does Villain reraise here that you're ahead of? Maybe QJcc or a few NFDs? AcAx? All 16 combos of AJ and all 5 combos of sets are entirely within V's range and make perfect sense with the 3-bet.

I think you're making your commitment decision on the flop. I'm not calling the 3-bet then folding on a blank turn, so if I called the flop reraise I'd shove over the turn bet.

75 pre

your not good after the flop 3bet on that board after an early position open. If it's not a straight it's a set. Draws will be jamming over you and not min 1.5x'ing you.

I don't know why we fold when most our money is in the 5d makes no difference unless he has the 5 set. I would of shuv and took it like a boss

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Is this a joke?

not call = 3b

I'd prob 3! the KQo combos. I think it's nice to have some stronger hands in our calling range however, especially 3-way with relative position.

Might have been a decent spot to squeeze such a small open.

Why not lead the flop?

As played fold, I would say over 90% of the time V has AJ or set here. Would he really repop it on the flop with a flush draw? Maybe some combos of flush draws with Jc included if V thinks you are weak enough to make that play against, but even then wouldn't calling be better for V in position? Think its safe to eliminate all of his bluffs.

What did you hope to accomplish by raising on such a wet board? For both V's to fold marginal hands?

You butchered this hand terribly. Leading out on flop or just calling bet and reevaluate turn OOP would have been better play.

After you call the flop you should know exactly what you plan on doing on blank turns given Villian's action, or you are basically hoping for a K or Q which is effectively a 4 outer. Lots of cards kill your hand including any club A, J, 10. You can expect villian to bet again continue with his story over 80% of the time after his nutted reraise on flop.

This is an example of being "exploited"

Can't believe you referred to yourself in third person. Where do you play? LMAO

I'd 3bet or fold.

I hate calling raises with hands like this from BB against relatively unknowns who I think are regs who raise from EP. Look where we are with top two. We usually end up winning a little or losing a lot.

I'm sorry but the Blaster part really got me goin, sometimes the dealers at my casino call me da kid

We're only lost because we don't know what villain's opening range is and we decided to raise top two on the flop when there are potentially 37 better combos out there plus a handful of combo draws that have good equity versus us that can all bet/3bet the flop.

That doesn't make calling from the BB bad or incorrect or whatever. We just got a deceptively tricky flop vs. an unknown range and unknown tendencies. In that case, I would either x/c, or x/r but know what I'm going to do if I get 3! on.

This is probably one of the toughest/trickiest flops we could possibly be dealt. An outlier flop shouldn't be used as justification for "see don't call preflop because this always happens."

I don't like calling raises with KQs from BB vs. an unknown "reg" EP raise. You can do it all you'd like.

(Not sure what you are hoping to flop that you can check/raise and continue on when OR re-raises? I guess a flush with the As on board would be nice. As I stated, seems as if you are going to win small or lose big, but have at it.)

Without a better idea of the openers range I would lean toward folding this hand. I'd range villain as TT+,ATs+,AJo+ and we do not fair well against that range. (This is close if villain plays more PP and weaker AXs then I like calling and 3!.)
As played this flop crushed us and Villains range too. While not a favorite to win the hand we should have enough equity to call and see the river. I especially like calling since we close the action.
The 5 increases our equity again and we should be about flipping going to the river. As played I think we have to call. I wouldn't shove though because a blank on the river doesn't keep us from stacking of and a club probably has us make a bad fold often.
That we have no real idea how to play this board is the best reason I can give for folding pre. We hit the flop hard but have now clear path to follow for value.

calling has to be better than folding preflop, given we are almost 200bb no? i would literally die of boredom folding KQs out of the bb if I am over 100bb eff, but maybe that's a leak. i prefer to call KQs going multiway, and squeeze usually with KQo.

i really prefer x/c flop and lead blank turns. i would prob fold to the flop 3bet. that feels so damn strong. i think when we get 3bet we are against a hand that has a minimum of 40% equity vs us, and I just don't see much of a reason to get 200bb tangled up in a situation like that at LLSNL.

Yeah, idk wtf Javanewt is talking about. Calling pre is super standard. 3-betting against an EP raise and call seems very ambitious, and folding is just ????

I fold to the 3-bet otf. Yes, we can be ahead sometimes, but not by much. We're also OOP and will very likely have to call off our stack the rest of the way.

we're not really multiway, it's only 3 players and being suited is not that much of a difference. You're still going to be OOP (even on rare instances where you flop a FD), you're still going to be whiffing flops, and you're still going to be behind EP opening ranges on top pair hands.

I hardly ever flat pre unless there's either a dynamic where you're looked up upon for 3betting light and will get 4bet light (but not to play fit or fold - with the intentions of getting creative post flop H/U) or if I'm setmining a PP.

If you add up all your calls pre in a session where you had to c/f the flop, that's a couple hours worth of profit or more right there that you could have saved for some people. But again, most live players flat pre and call too much anyway, so the population is with you guys ; )

this is just wrong. super standard defend, folding here is a leak, and if we assign him such a tight opening range, I don´t understand a 3bet at all.

vs nitty opening range and 30% flatting range including monsters, and those are very conservative ranges:

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

600,000 trials (Randomized)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
KsQs	28.58%	167,620	8,570
TT, JJ, QQ, KK, AA, AcTc, AJ, AQ, AK	46.59%	272,276	15,347
30%	24.83%	140,134	18,581

I´m not really surprised that folding pre gets discussed though...

otth,
disagree with Avaria in one point, I dislike leading any hand on a board like this against an EP open as BB, c/c flop.

As played, I don´t know what hands you are c/raising on this texture and what hands you 3bet pre vs EP open and one flat, and I strongly dislike c/raising KQ in this spot, but assuming you´d raise AJ, J9 and TT for value and c/c KT and QT, you could easily have the worst hand in your range besides some randomn bluffs (which I don´t think you have many if you even have bluffs at all on this texture in this situation anyway), so as further played, fold flop.

As even further played, I don´t see any logic behind calling the flop c/r and now folding a total blank, so at this point easy shove I guess, but dislike flop play very much.

FWIW i'm not like advocating a wide BB defend range and encouraging everyone to call and x/f a bunch of flops. I dont spend much time in the lab but i feel KQs is profitable to call from the bb. sauhund gave some numbers as well, and I agree that those are conservative ranges.

I think preflop is good, and like I said, I also agree that x/r and leading flop is not great. x/r seems especially bad 200bb deep. x/r and getting it in like <= 100bb doesnt seem terrible, but overall i much prefer x/c. i would lead most blank turns to get value from hands like AK/KJ/FD/combo draws like A5cc etc.

if KQs is a significant leak from the bb... then i shall gladly leak that money and not die of extreme boredom

I am not always folding KQs from the BB, but I'm doing it here vs. this player in this situation. And, yes, I'd rather 3bet an unknown reg than flat. Maybe when I get to know more about him I can flat his EP raise, but not yet.

Heck, Hero has a reputation for being a "blaster," and V1 could know that from a buddy, watching her at another time, etc. He could just be playing back at her because of her reputation -- yet everyone still wants to fold on the flop. This is not a good position to be in.

Repeat after me "They are not playing back at me...They are not playing back at me.."

I also qualify as a "blaster"....truth is, I have to repeat that quote a million times. Because people just don't play back at you much. Especially on this board!!!!!!!

Calling pretty is fine, with small open and a caller.

3 betting sucks with no reads. Have hand that flops well. Have very little fold equity vs standard utg range. Playing rest of hand OOP.

3 betting likely going 3 ways to flop also.



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Think about this. KQ is actually the bottom end of your raising range here. So yes you can raise/fold it.

Still calling with all nutted hands, club draws (which would make up for majority of your bluffs). So dumping KQ in this spot is fine.

Not sure I like your raise, being we don't have solid reads. But don't hate it as much as others.



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I'm not saying to fold. What about a 3bet don't you understand? It's a texbook opportunity to raise per.