Effective stacks 1k with all

V1 is probably the best player in the room. Typically only plays 5/10+ but today no 5/10 is running. He's very balanced (when playing against other regs, he's exploitative vs recs) and is capable of some sick ****. Definitely has an edge vs me

V2 is a semi-drunk really crazy rec player. If he limps pre he's always calling, even cold-calling a 3bet. He's been running like god for the past 2 hours

Preflop: V2 open limps the HJ, hero raises to $30 w/ A4, V1 calls in BB, V2 calls.

Flop ($92): 642

V1 bets $50, V2 folds, hero calls

Turn ($192): A

V1 bets $135, hero calls

River ($462): 5

V1 bets $265, hero?

I feel like it might be hard for villain to find enough river bluffs in his range, on the river. Given V2 being in the pot his flop leading range is probably weighted slightly more towards value.

Probably mostly value otf. Prob has 66. 78 got there. 6x or any pair with hearts is a possibility. Really depends how you play, cause this villain probably knows. Any history? Any reason for him to think you'll fold 99-KK?

I would call, I think villain's range OTF is going to be a good amount of pairs plus sets, possibly 78 but seems less likely with fish in the hand. His value is roughly 11 combos of sets, aces up, and discounted straights, he has probably 4 combos of worse value (45/56) we need to win about 1 in 4, I'd say it is a close call but our hand is stronger than it should be.

This is a set or a straight like 90% of the time, and the flop lead is freaking terrible.

how does villain perceive you? Does he think you're floating with Ax otf at all? If not, your hand looks like A2-A6, with an occasional hand like 78hh or 57s - or a PP that he was trying to barrel you off of when the ace hit.

I think that villain can have 45s, 56s, A2-A6s, all flopped sets here, and occasionally a hand like 78. However, the value part of his range (2pair+) is probably weighted towards hands that beat you.

Hard to say. I'd just call. Given pot odds, I don't think it can possibly be that wrong, even if it's wrong.

Probably just exploitatively folding the flop. Pretty bizarre line to take but I'll just MUBs him for 66/22 and move along.

Your plan was to isolate V2, not tangle with the best player in the room with a pair of 4's. No shame in folding.

Call, I expect to win here more than 75%, no value in raising

Strange line vs. recs … I think V would more likely be C/C or C/R a cbet with a value hand.

Hero blocks 44 and frankly leading top set seems too strong. That leaves 3 combos of 22.

Could have a combo of 64s, 77 (both no good), maybe 33, some suited AX. Also, may have taken this line with some random pair/draw combos (5h4h) or over hearts that picked up equity on the turn. Might be balancing in the wrong game

Getting 2.75-1, I’d call.

I'm not convinced V1 is flatting baby SCs from the SB, but it's possible. But he certainly has fewer of them by the time you consider his 3 barrel and the 5d falls. I mean is he really calling down to 45hh pre and then barreling off? Mehhhhh

So yea, the basic hand reading has people thinking he flopped a monster and is just bet bet betting it. He could, however, it's also a line a strong player (and a sicko) will take w 77/88 aiming for value/ISO V2 otf (fold hero's overs), then bluff you off pairs ott (you shouldnt have too many strong Ax), and then value size a river that probably sucks slightly more for you than him. (Though it's close).

Anyways, I'm calling river if I know he respects my game/expects me not to bluff catch/call 1 pair facing 3x bets. I just don't think he donks A3/55 or has enough of those hands to begin with.. I'd expect to be shown a set/77/78.

it's really a question of how wide villain is calling from the BB. Is he the best player in the room as in, just plays very solid?

or best player as in, studies the game a lot, and will try to outplay you a lot and put you in tough spots?

If latter, i can get more on board with a call, if the former, it just feels like 100% value town.

Does he defend 35s/75s?

I feel V is more likely to x/r his semi bluffs here like 57 / 78s with BDFD and not lead. Lead to me from a good player feels very value-y, esp with some bad drunk dude who will station.

I actually disagree with any thoughts that flop lead is terrible here if he has a flopped set/straight. He knows that H as PFR will call a lot of flop leads with any over pair or AK w/ BDFD type hands, and that the whale will also station down. It allows him to go for 3 streets with his flopped monsters vs 2 people. Seems ok to me.

I wouldn't classify him as 'solid'. He pushes thin EV spots, will exploitatively overbluff/underbluff if he thinks it's the right move. If I had to guess I would say his strategy vs me is to balance.

I thought about just folding flop but it seems so weak. I mean we're way overfolding if we fold this hand vs that sizing.

If this was hu I would snap call river, but with V2 in there, I feel like his flop lead is more value, and his flop bluffs are almost all 2pair or better by the river. I don't think he would vbet his weak 2pair given how value heavy his perceived range is already.

I guess for bluffs he still has 5xs type hands

He called from BB not SB and he absolutely has some small scs given V2

Also his 3bets pre are handcuffed because V2 is going to call his 3bets like 80%+ or maybe even 100%. I've yet to see V2 fold to any amount after he's limped

+1... Op, what would have you don't on turns that didn't give you two pair+? Even after you hit you feel uncomfortable. That's telling me that fold flop is probably best.

If villain keeps donk leading flops you can plan on making some lightish calldowns, but it doesn't sound like you have that level of history yet. Just give him credit for top pair or better, realize that your equity sucks against that (you don't have any back door FDs in your range), and worry more about defending your range on flops that actually hit your range harder than Vs.

If you are worried about being exploited, I would strongly disagree with you not wanting to fold simply because it's too weak. We have a ton of better hands on the flop. A ton of overpairs, we even have a lot of better Ax4x (ones w/ bdfd). I just don't think we are overfolding unless he seems to be doing it too often.

Tough spot. I think I call in your spot on the flop. But I can get behind folding, with villain betting into drunk rec and PFR. Hes Showing a lot of strength

I think that folding second pair as PFR on a 246r flop with no BD FD isn't really "overfolding." There are runouts that basically just suck for most of our range, and we should expect a caller from the blinds to have a bit of an advantage here.

It is overfolding though from a balance/theory perspective. And there shouldn't be much of a range advantage if they're attempting to play balanced against each other.

Let me just put it this way... I'd rather have just about any hand with a BDFD to call with here than A4. And that's neglecting all overpairs and sets and top pairs in hero's range. There are better hands to call with here. And yes I think there should be a pretty significant range advantage for a caller from the blinds vs a late position raiser on this particular flop.

A4 is going to have to fold to a bet on 90% of turns, or make a play with next to no equity

If he's that wide perhaps raise turn for value sometimes? (And puke call?) I mean you should have all the sets (and AA) with a few combo draws, maybe some heart bway floats mixed in. Just a thought at standard stacks.

In game I think my goto read without info would have the weaker hands betting again at a sizing that could be value but performs well as a value/bluff block.

Maybe you should just shove river

Folding A4 on the flop may be ovefolding from an absolute GTO/balance perspective but in a live 2/5 game, if we are calling with A4 on a 642 simply to be balanced, not overfold, and not be exploited, I think we are leveling ourselves. We will truly be ok folding this hand here and not be heavily exploited imo. We have better hands, and enough hands.

Not many of those that you beat, basically just 75s in terms of actual bluffs. If you think he is value betting 65 or 45 here (which I imagine he would) than I think this is a call. But you are calling because you beat a portion of his value range, not because he is bluffing a lot here (he can't be bluffing much here at all).

Folding flop is absolutely overfolding theory wise. It's not even close given normal RFI ranges and esp not close given how wide I'm actually raising V2. Obviously we have better call candidates, but that doesn't make it a fold.

What could make it a fold is that with V2 in the hand, his bluffing range on the flop has a lot less fold equity.

I would prob fold flop. But i dont think its overfolding theory wise. Reason being is that we (and the drunk guy) collectively need to call enough so that he cant profitably bluff atc. Pretty safe to assume the drunk guy is defending more than his fair share, which means in theory, we dont need to defend much

Ignoring V2 - There are certainly spots where I think villains can and should be able to profitably bluff with ATC. The problem is that most of our range here is going to be unsuited big cards which suck on this flop, while villain's range is a lot more weighted to suited cards and pocket pairs that could have easily flopped big.

Just because villain can have plenty of bluffs to lead flop doesn't mean we can just be a station with A4. Yeah calling 50 to win 142 on the flop doesn't sound so bad. But by the end of the hand, it turns out the decision was to call 450 to win 542. And even though we improved, we still don't know what to do. IMO if the river isn't a clear snap with our two pair, then flop call must be bad.

Also, A4 would suck to turn into a bluff on the turn. And I imagine that villain is betting well over 80% of turns, and that hero is folding over 80% of turns when villain bets. So please explain how it's overfolding on the flop if you're just going to fold later on in the hand so often.... if you feel you must continue bc you're at the top X% of your range, then I think a flop raise is much better than flatting. You block some sets, and this hand is probably as good as any to balance your sets against.

you cannot possibly fold this vs this type of player.

Call