Interesting thread. From your posts (in this and other threads) you are obviously better at poker then 95% of this forum OP so its not a surprise your line went over some peoples head.

Flop raise is some kind of merge, you get better to fold by the nit and worse to call by the loose V. It's a huge win to make him fold QJ, because that means he also folds KQ so what does he call with? AQ AA KK 99 JT. That's a very narrow range.

Now the other V is very wide and given his limp call, I think we are ahead of his range, OP just ran into the top of it.

I think the flop raise has merits, it's not a play I would make but I understand hero's thought process and multi-fonction bet. Also I think the turn is a bet as played given V fastplays monsters.

I don't think this is true. I think he can Def fold out QJ/QK/QT. Might get a combo draw to fold too but that depends on nittyness of v.

Rate the flop as a bluff and it's not bad. It just didn't work out. It happens to everyone. His line can easily be 55/99/Q9s so it's believable.

As for the river, unfortunately no matter how insensible Vs line seems he always has it when c/r river. This is not a play that novice players have in their arsenal at 2/5 although it would be extremely profitable.

This is the way I saw the hand playing out in my head [now that we know V2 had AQs]:

V2 limps in EP behind an EP limp with AQs! Hero calls. V1 raises to $25, V2 calls, as does Hero.

Now doesn't this tag V2 as a NIT?

Anyways, otf when V2 checks again with TPTK & Hero checks, V1 c-bets slightly more than 1/2 pot & V2 just calls.

Let's say V2 doesn't have AQs, that he has JJ. Would he not think that V1's bet is possibly air [or JTs] lookin' for 2 folds [or a free card] and would call here? Especially when Hero didn't bet.

However, since V2 does have AQ, it appears he is lookin' to not bloat the pot with only top pair.

Hero doesn't know what V2 has, but he is possibly thinkin' the same thing about V1 that V2 possibly is. So, he raises [trying to rep a set?] & folds out V1. However, V2 calls his raise.

NOW Hero has to give V2's range respect & checks back ott. However, by checking ott he is telling V2 that he didn't flop a set, but is V2 going to fold to another barrel after calling Hero's flop raise & turning the nut flush draw? Idk. Also, Hero doesn't know V2 turned the nut flush draw.

A 2nd barrel is the only way of winning the pot, absent spiking a ten, and that's only if V2 isn't sittin' on a set, milkin' it to death, lookin' for Hero to fire that 2nd barrel ott & then come over the top. So Hero checks & gets lucky otr.

The board, ott, shouldn't concern V2 with a set of 5's or 9's, and if he perceives Hero as one who would fire another barrel ott, especially with a card that comes that helps draws in no way [unless Hero has JTs-1 combo], why not check & let Hero walk into it? That is if he believes Hero is that aggressive, because he doesn't want to lose a street of value with a set.

Also, notice that V2 [since he didn't have a set-but instead AsQs] turned the nut flush draw, so most any bet would get called, eh? So, Hero avoided disaster, absent spiking a ten otr. That statement is totally results oriented of course, because if the ten had been a spade, odds are OP would lose his stack, no?

Maybe I'm just being results oriented, but like Hero said, the combined equity of his villains, if he does have the best hand otf, would warrant trying to get one out. Especially if he thinks V2 would call V1's flop c-bet with JJ, JTs, etc.

Can Hero discount V2 having a set on this flop when he just calls V1's c-bet?

I was thinking about the statement that Hero, with his raise otf, only gets worse hands to fold & better hands to call.

That is the case here, but I think it was the combination of V2 calling V1's c-bet otf AND Hero raising that convinced V1 his QJ was no good.

As it turns out, V2 prefers not to bloat pots with just TPTK and Hero would have better off just calling otf & seeing what happened ott. It turns out Hero got extremely lucky spiking a non-spade ten otr.

When you c/r, like Hero did otf, isn't a % of those c/r suppose to be bluffy for balance? How often would Hero have the best hand here? A fair % of the time I would think.

For me, there would have to be a diamond otf for me to consider raising & I doubt that I would. But that's me. However, OP's line of thinkin' got me to wondering. I mean, is he ALWAYS going to find himself up against a better hand here otf? Is the c/r really that GOD AWFUL? Idk.

I don't know if it's worth noting, however, if you do a reciprocal analysis of this hand, swapping positions with V2 & Hero, I doubt V2 would get to see the river & Hero would win the hand.

I think it is pretty hard to know if you are actually getting AQ to fold, but i guess if you really are someone is that exploitable then its fine. However i still don't like the play given that there is a station in the pot. You say their is no point in bluffing because V's range has already been narrowed and this may be true against V1 but based on your description of V2 its not. "V is somewhat sticky postflop, but will fold to a great deal of aggression with large bets on later streets. " Seems like a good player to barrel off against.

overall i think the flop is too soon to know that you are behind with QT and have to turn it into a bluff. If you are going to i like calling flop, taking a card off and seeing what happens on the turn. you can still c/r turn which usually reps even stronger and you just have more info now. yea you give up some equity in letting people see free card but sometimes turn will check through and you can win unimproved.

I think V2 has KJ very very often here given player descriptions. It's perceived as an over plus gutshot (7 outs) plus maybe backdoor FD (1 out). Otherwise, we are hoping to chop against QT, but there's not nearly as many combos of that as KJ.

Fold now.

Edit: Just saw results. I think it is so strange and rare to see people do this with AQ so that I tend not to take that into consideration. It still feels like it's going to be very hard for you to be good here, and you got a bit lucky with results.

What's important to note about AQ is V clearly thought he was raising for value. So I tend to think this is almost always for value, not a bluff. And if they're doing this for value, it is very hard for you to be ahead.

Don't sit a table 1/2 full of retirees much, eh?

Which is why I stay away from the day games. Unfortunately, some go home, take a nap & return!

Meh, if I'm sitting at 1/2 or perceive a player at 2/5 to be the typical 1/2 fish, top two is the nuts always and I try very hard not to try to understand their line of thinking. When I wrote my response initially, I thought of villain who is sticky, gambly, and who doesn't believe others. That's why I thought villain could easily have KJ which looks like a 7-8 out draw to this player type. But I at least gave V credit for having enough brains not to check-raise shove a hand like AQ for value here (can't get better hands to fold or worse hands to call).

Yes, the way the hand went down was incredible I thought. My response to your 1st post was meant to in jest.....thus the emoticons.