2/5, 7-handed

Tight UTG1 old guy (800) raises to $20,
Hero (750, CO) calls with AdKh,
V who is a MAWG (600, BTN) calls,
SB (500, old guy) calls

Flop ($80): KJ4ccs
UTG1 checks, Hero bets $55, V calls, SB folds, UTG1 calls

Turn ($245): Qs
UTG1 checks, Hero bets $125, V raises to $350, UTG1 folds, Hero ?

Newish table so no reads.. is my turn bet spew? I figured Q doesn't hit them unless it's KQ exactly.

At first I didn't like the turn bet but having thought about it I think it's good.

Obviously folding to the turn raise, not close.

Yeah, I usually check/fold turn in this spot but tried something new. Also, I instantly kicked myself for not 3betting pre.

Turn bet is OK but I think it's about break even. There isn't much that can call another bet that you are beating but betting forces villains to play pretty face up. With so many possible draws the hands that are beating you have to raise now. If you check you will be guessing if you are ahead or not on most rivers.

Obviously fold to the raise without a good read on villain.

Yep, 3bet pre. Check/evaluate turn. Not a good card at all. As played, obvious fold.

Flatting pre is fine. Post is fine/good as long as you folded turn

What are you doing on the river when called? I worry given that almost half the deck is scare cards and we'll be out of position in a big pot.

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Actaully, that Q can hit him a million different ways from gutter balling straights, to 2p, to adding equity his clubs and pair+spades combos.

I like check deciding, mostly calling this card.

Reason being, you should already have a lot of better bets here and need some good check-calls, so I would like to play this AK (no draw FD/blocking parts of his value/not blocking his semibluffs) as a check.

Problem with c/c is I'll be forced to bluff catch blank rivers for big money.

And he'll be forced to bluff in a spot with somewhat limited perceived FE for big money, but that's assuming he bets in the first place, sometimes he checks turn and you can play a river.

Besides, you also don't have to always call a brick river, sometimes it checks down, sometimes the river helps you, but a turn check often will give you a good chance to showdown you hand.

Betting likely turn has its benefits too at some frequency w AK, but probably not red offsuit bc, as we see, you really cannot call a raise and won't be thrilled on a lot of rivers. Your value bets are thin, so it becomes more of a protection play which is a pretty big problem considering the range you're firing into.

Pre good

Turn I might prefer a check, it's close. Extremely obvious fold now.

What if we had KQ and got raised OTT?

Why are you so confident the Q didn't help him? KQ, QJs, QTs, ATcc AQcc all make sense. I think betting and checking this turn make a lot of sense. I'm probably checking vs competent players and betting vs players that are loose passive.

I actually like an exploitative 3 bet pre if we think tight old dude is going to 4 bet with only AA and KK and usually rips it in with those hands.

I'm just trying to convince myself that the Q doesn't help them often, but if they're donks calling my flop bet with gutshots, second pair, etc. then I'm obv 100% wrong.

And yes, terrible flat pre. Don't seem to recollect any time it has worked for me.

Why don't you repop for 3! of $80?
I don't like to call with AK in position. I would 3! to $80 and if villain 4! to $200 I will shove. He will fold everything except AA or KK and even there we have two blockers. You would be making the life miserable for any player. Sometimes I'm even called in two places for the shove. I mean a big shove for all the effective.

Why be afraid? - $750 effective in 2/5 game is just 150bb. Can you handle a flux of 150bb? or there's a problem? - And why just $750 effective? Why not $1,000?

Granted, variance goes thru the roof here, but I always wrongly assume everybody is loaded bankroll-wise as I am.

Build a big bankroll. The variance in these kind of plays is extremely high, due solely to big pots. Tight play does not provide a solution to this problem especially with AA and AK when we shove, although it somewhat AA tones it down. The obvious answer is a big enough bankroll. Do not adopt any strategies designed to reduce variance! - Treat it as a funny money. Have enough to withstand challenges of fate. Do not spend the winnings. After a while, if the game is good to you, buy yourself something out of the bankroll. A shiny gambler's gold Rolex watch maybe. A little token of pride. A mark of achievement. You will feel good about yourself, that's never a bad thing.

this is spew

a tight older guy raises UTG+1, we 3bet and he 4bets us, then you would jam for 150 big blinds with AK?

Terrible advice.

what?

most people are here to steadily build their bankroll, not donate it away

My friend, I'm talking about the hard core pro player not about how amateurs should be play this complicated game. This is not video poker but casino live with real playing cards. This is a people game not a card game. Did you notice this?

I'm not donating to no one. I'm doing this all my life and if I would be a losing player I would have been bankrupt a long time ago. Do you think shoving with AK is spew? What, your AK is a drawing hand like a 76s or JTs? - If your treat AK as a drawing hands you are playing the wrong game.

AK is designed to win against QQ, JJ, TT , 99 ... all other pairs plus it has got to blow away all the other AK and all non pair hands that it dominates. Another words, only AA/KK are a problem and even there we cut the combos in half. Only 6 combos total of AA and KK out of 1362.

Anyway, I am talking about NL poker at the professional level not video games disguised as Hold'em for youngsters playing 2NL for pennies in their parents basement rend free, food free and even Internet free where they hone their little skills in micro stakes. (lol)

Yes, I did notice this. That's why when a tight older guy raises from UTG+1 then 4bets our 3bet, what do you think his range is? Do you think he's doing this with AQ? It's AA, KK and very rarely < QQ and AK.

after we get 4bet by a nit? yes.

OK, so when villain's doing that with QQ and AK we blow him away. Our shove with our AK will blow away his QQ and his AK. We also chop the AA/KK combos to a total of 6 only.

A great majority of live No Limit Hold'em players even some small winning players play AK far too weakly. Most of them think the AK is a drawing hand, therefore they only call raises to hit the flop or fold after the flop if they missed. Playing AK this way guaranty the lowest earn possible for the hand. The lack of reciprocal edge by playing AK softly alone demonstrates why we should no play AK softly. If we play AK in a defensive manner rather than offensive, then our hand playing is basically really weak which breads an entirely weak overall game plan. Our entire game is weak and obviously we become weaker and weaker player as time goes by.

What you got to do is watch how the rest of table plays AK and if you observe they play it weak the way I described, you immediately start play it very aggressive to capitalize on the "reciprocal edge". You understand what reciprocal edge is? Right? I hope you do.

Eample of reciprocal edge
If you and another dude have AK and he's playing it as a drawing hand where he's looking to hit the flop before putting more bets or check/fold. - And you play it to demolish the weak players the way I described using 4! + shove preflop. Guess what? You will be making the most money.

The queen is a bad card to bet imo. You will not win this pot often enough to bet the turn so lets check and see if we can squeeze the second street of value otr

Bet smaller as played, fold as played

3bet pre.

3bet pre goes without saying. Our 3! should be done in such a way to imply into monkey's little red head that if he 4! he's not gonna get any folding equity against us. A 4! on his part it's gonna be like us playing for stacks. Your 3! is your leverage and villain must understand that if continue we gonna build a mountain of chips in the middle. So make your 3! so villain got to either fold or play for stacks. I mean,... bring your 3! to come close to 40% of the stacks so he folds or you can call a shove. Most dudes will not shove for deep stacks with QQ or less and the other AK are harmless and all the AA/KK are cut in half.

So, let's get rolling Lolita!

This for sure. We don't play this game in a vacuum. Advocating a 5! shove for a 150bb with AK off against a "tight old lady" who opens UTG1 is absolute spew. Sure, there are certain situations against certain opponents where I'd happily call it off against a 4! , or 5! jam with AK, but this certainly isn't one of those situations.

As for the hand itself, I don't hate the line, though I'd prefer checking turn and hoping to get to SD or play some rivers. Oblivious fold now.

#1)
You see, I want to know if any of you guys considering AK to be a drawing hand.
PLEASE tell me if any of you think his AK a drawing type hand. If any of you plans with AK to see the flop and connect with else they may c/b or fold. Is that so?

#2)
I'm not advocating a 5! shove against a tight old dude. I am saying that our 3! should have blow him away. Now we got no idea if old dude's got QQ/AK or AA.

#3)
Our hero doesn't know much about what to do with AK anyway, forget about how to read the old villain as tight. First hero's AK should have been 3! preflop not calling. We are not calling with AK. If he calls with AK I don't give him any consideration. If he calls with AK, it means his range for 3! is QQ+ and that's all. Exactly 1.36% for 3!. Another words he is the "old bingo old guy" vs. another old dude (LOL)

Guys its fine, hes not advocating for a 5bet shove, only for making the threebet so large ("close to 40% of stacks", which you'll note here is ~60bb) that you pot commit yourself. Much more sensible!

I will say, and I've said this before, preflop call is not a compromise action between raise and fold. If this old guy is so tight that you can't threebet him, then fold. You're just going to end up dumping money when you flop a K or A and it's no good because he has AA or a set

So, you would 3bet to 300??