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Old 04-21-2017, 08:04 AM   #1
slowburnerdeluxe
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2/5 2 pair value jam line check

H image tag, v had just sat down, I just 3 bet ajos from bb and flopped top pair and got it in against v on turn, he had same hand.

V Asian, called me down with tptk in 3 bet pot in the previous hand, most likely rec player

Eff stacks 500

H in sb aqcc
V in co

Fish in mp opens for 15, hj calls, v calls in co, h calls

Flop(60)
A84hh
Hx, mp bets 35, v raises to 80, h calls, mp folds

Turn (255)
8
H bets 200, v calls

River (655)
Jd
H?

My thinking is his raise looks weak on flop, could be a draw, could have 2pair but would have likely got counterfeited on the turn.

I bet the turn because I don't want to give his draws a free card to get there on the river.

Should I be jamming river for value?
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Old 04-21-2017, 08:46 AM   #2
water69
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Re: 2/5 2 pair value jam line check

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowburnerdeluxe View Post
H image tag, v had just sat down, I just 3 bet ajos from bb and flopped top pair and got it in against v on turn, he had same hand.
^^image not TAG anymore

3b to 75 pre, after 3betting and showing down AJo just a minute ago you should get called by plenty worse hands and AQ is going to play better HU than multiway.
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Old 04-21-2017, 10:47 AM   #3
ronrabbit
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Re: 2/5 2 pair value jam line check

3 bet pre to isolate the fish....
I'm not involve with the way the action has gone on this flop, our flat looks super strong and when mp calls behind,
3way to the turn I seriously doubt we are good here...I'm definitely not leading this turn, check, hope it checks through, if it does we are probably ok to bet blank rivers... If one of our villans bets the turn I think we should fold..
River is pretty blank so as played.... I dobt know, because of prior action is a bit weird to me, but I would take a check call line rather than leading out.
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Old 04-21-2017, 07:31 PM   #4
djevans
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Re: 2/5 2 pair value jam line check

3bet pre

fold flop
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Old 04-23-2017, 09:10 AM   #5
ChrisV
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Re: 2/5 2 pair value jam line check

Quote:
Originally Posted by djevans View Post
3bet pre

fold flop
So much this.

Very concisely put.
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Old 04-23-2017, 09:41 AM   #6
diskoteque
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Re: 2/5 2 pair value jam line check

3b to 80 pre.

As played lead flop for ~pot

As played I think there's merit to shoving flop. A bit scary with mp left to act but his small cbet into wet board isn't too scary imo. Flatting is ok too.

I like the turn bet to get value from worse aces and FDs. If we think he will bet again then c/r turn is good, depends on your read on how likely he is to bet turn with FD on paired board.

River c/c if you think he will bluff missed hearts
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Old 04-23-2017, 04:04 PM   #7
Jarretman
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Re: 2/5 2 pair value jam line check

Quote:
Originally Posted by djevans View Post
3bet pre

fold flop
This.

I also think leading flop is best, but as played fold the flop now.

Turn is ok I guess....

River as played I x/c
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Old 04-23-2017, 05:01 PM   #8
pocketzeroes
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Re: 2/5 2 pair value jam line check

Fold flop.
If we think V raises draws, then it matters which card otf is not a heart. We prefer it to be the ace, as he should show up with a lot dominated Axs hands with FD. If it's the 8, then his only real combo draw for there on us, and I'd lean more toward a x/f.
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Old 04-23-2017, 05:12 PM   #9
venice10
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Re: 2/5 2 pair value jam line check

You technically have 2 pair, but everyone else that has an ace also has 2 pair. It is a much weaker hand than your title suggests.

I'd 3bet to isolate the mp preflop. As played, I'm not excited to play TPGK with a raise on the flop. I'd fold. Turn bet is pure spew. He's not buying you called a raise with second pair.

On the river, the pot is 655 and you have 205 left. Are you really going to fold getting over 4:1 on the river? No. Is the villain going to fold better if you give him 4:1? No. Therefore, I'd check to see if you can get him to spew off the last of the chips.
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Old 04-23-2017, 05:55 PM   #10
pocketzeroes
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Re: 2/5 2 pair value jam line check

+1 to above... In general, with hold em, think about and discuss hands in terms of how your hole cards interact with board.
Overpair = you have a pocket pair bigger than anything on the board.
top pair/second pair/third pair = You made a pair with one hole card and the top/second/third/etc card on the board
Two pair = Both hole cards hit board for two pair
Set = you have a pocket pair that hit board for three of a kind.
Trips = one of your hole cards was used with board to make three of a kind.
Quads = one or both of your hole cards was used to make quads.

So what you really have is top pair/good kicker on a paired board, which is something like second pair on an unpaired board - not an enormously strong hand, unless we feel confident in removing trips+ from our opponents' ranges.
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Old 04-24-2017, 12:26 AM   #11
Case2
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Re: 2/5 2 pair value jam line check

Grunch.

Throwing some shade on 3B AJo in BB and gii with TP against an unknown. I don't think this is a good way to win the monies.

With reads, I'd very seriously consider 3b the current hand pre. I'm also OK flatting and looking to flop big and stack someone. I'm not looking to gii against a field of 4 with TP2K though.

AP in this hand I snap fold the flop. We have TP2K OOP with two other players interested in the hand. When it gets back to us, we're not closing the action (though we got lucky this time) and we have few improvement opportunities if we're behind. OOP, RIO, not sure where we stand, multiple opponents: no thank you.

AP, OTT you're heads up with someone who has shown he'll stack off with AJ and perhaps weaker. There's 200 in the pot with 400 behind. Any bet is pot committing with these stacks against this guy. The second 8 probably didn't change anything (only hands like 98, 87, etc. improved to beat you). You might be ahead, you might be behind. (FWIW, only A4 got counterfeited; A8 and 84 both improved from beating you to beating you harder.)

I'd have checked the turn. True, V has shown he'll stack off with TP and there's a draw. But he'll also stack off with stronger hands, many of which are possible here. I'd like to have AK beat before I really got excited. And betting here doesn't charge the draw as much as it might seem, since now you're going to have to put the rest in even if it comes in. We have to balance wanting to charge draws with not wanting to lose our stack every time V has TP beat. Having TP beat is more common than a) the draw actually being in his hand and b) the draw actually coming in.

AP, OK you bet the turn and he didn't raise. That's probably good news, making it less likely he has a monster.

The jack on the river is not good news. One of the hands you were beating just got there. Now all you beat is AT, A9, A7 - A5, A3, and A2 and he's probably not stacking off with the runty ones. If he's got a busted draw, he's not calling your bet. If he's got a big hand, he's happilly calling. You're in a really crappy spot. OOP, not knowing where you are, but pot committed. I guess I'd shove to target his weaker TP hands. He's going to shove his strong hands anyway(and you're going to have to calll).

These two hands make me think you may overvalue TP and stack off with it too lightly. Obviously it depends on the game, but I don't normally consider LLSNL raises to be weak, even if they are small. And routinely stacking off with TP against unknowns is not a good idea.
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