Hero: Prob giving off a spazzy proey image after a questionable pre flop raise in the cut off that got to showdown after check flop/ turn second nuts. $950 effective. Otherwise, been chipping up without showdown. Only 1 showdown in the last 2 hours. Super tight image otherwise.

V: Pretty tight asian guy, early ~20s. Haven't really seen him play many hands, does a lot of limp/folding, I haven't really seen him showdown any hands, besides a hand where he limped pre and flopped two pair and went 2 streets. ~$800ish.

Table is super soft, very weak and loose, lots of limp/calling if the value train begins, otherwise limp/folding. Table is definitely fit or fold, and is literally all bad recs besides maybe V, who is... tight?.

$2/4, 400 buy in cap.

5 limpers to hero on the button...

Hero looks down at AJo, As.

Hero makes it $35. (discuss?)
BB flats, utg+1 flats, V in the HJ flats.

Flop: Ts 8d 4s
checked around to hero, Hero bets $90. (discuss?)
BB and utg fold, V tanks for a solid 30 seconds to a minute and flats.

Turn: Jh
V checks, hero?

Bet. Then snap jam river over any oop bet. Nh. I like the flop sizing, too.

Not an optimal board for a cbet.
I feel that it hits bad players limping ranges hard and you may need to three barrel without improving.

AP bet 1/2-2/3 pot on turn.

LOL at getting called in three places PF. When you have the button.

Please explain why you would bet the flop.

I like pre

Flop I'm inclined to treat like a 3bet pot, which means I'm sizing smaller generally. If they are fit or fold anyway, than I think 65 is fine. With that said, I do like the cbet vs weak field and w two overs and multiple back doors.

Turn we have $300ish pot around 500 behind. I don't think we can play for all of it ahead of Vil range.

Does he have any c/r semi bluffs here? If so I probably cry check and look for river value on most run outs. If he's not capable I b/f for 170 or so. W this sizing I'm probably firing 200 otr for value if we get called often.

Pre and the flop are fine. I disagree with checking this flop, there are a ton of good cards for us to barrel OTT (any spade, J, Q, K, A), you just have to be prepared to barrel at a high frequency, because you're not gonna pick up this pot OTF very often.

I'm bet/folding 225 OTT because I think we can get a lot of calls from pr+draw hands since some hands picked up SD equity OTT, and then I'm pretty much checking back all non-A/J rivers since I'm not expecting to get called by worse vs this particular V.

Really? Turning this into a bluff? Multi-way??

My head is spinning.

You have overs that are likely good if spiked, and you have a decent amount of SDV.

Your descriptions are complete contradictions. Is the table weak tight (topic title) or loose passive (weak and loose)? Is hero's image a maniac (spazzy pro) or nitty (super tight)? Is V tight as you say, or a whale (lots of limp/folding)? And is table fit or fold (nitty) or a fishfest for cheap flops (lots of limp/calling and limp/folding)?

Your descriptions are quite contradictory, so I would expect most responses to be. Personally I check to keep the river bet sizing small.

Edit: And I like the flop bet.

Great so far. Flop is good. Not checking AA, KK, QQ, so not checking this vs weak tight players. If they raise, it is never a bluff. Bet turn 1/2 to 2/3.

check back flop with the backdoors you have. Doubt you fold that much better, maybe some low-mid pairs but those are most likely folding later anyways.

Even if we don't ever fold better there is still the issue of allowing 3 worse random hands to draw for free. Between gutshots and live cards there is probably a good chance that we're giving away up to 20-25‰ of the pot (in this case 6-8bb) by checking. Theres also the issue that stems from the check where we often are forced to continue to check and give up additional free cards to the field, while additionally starting to turn our hand face up and increase Rio. Whereas a bet on the flop will often face us, at worst, with a shortened field, and facing checks, giving us the option to take free cards, or a c/r normally only forcing us to fold a low equity hand anyway.

Just my two cents.

New rule: you're not allowed to do this. You're not allowed to claim that one branch has a negative expectation, and then ignore the possible negative expectations that may arise when following the alternative branch.

No more with the "apples are better than oranges."

Losing a small pot is better than losing a big one. I say it now and forever.

Sometimes I get in ruts where I ask girls who are a 9/10 to **** me, and 9/10 of them won't **** me; so then I get in ruts where I ask girls who are a 1/10 to **** me, and 9/10 of them still won't **** me.

The moral of the story is that it has nothing to do with this hand. Still, I don't care how big the pot is, you should bet this flop and sometimes lose a bigger pot. However most of the time you just end up w an extra $30 or so and then, the next time you ask a girl to **** you, you're $30 more handsome.

This has been story time w sungar78

The End.

Sorry, I was very tired when I wrote the description, IT IS weak tight post flop but weirdly can be very loose pre once a few callers begin to call.
On the flop, table generally plays fit or fold, and are priced in when it's small absolute sizing.

I think I have to Cbet and am more than willing to double/triple barrel because I am repping JJ+ and if not, lots of good cards that can come especially since I'm in position.

I think you have to Cbet this type of board tho, because it's not like they are going to call $35 with T8ss or T8o very often, most of the time, I believe V will either have sets or weak pairs here who can't stand 2-3 barrels.
If they have sets, I can easily release because they're pretty straight forward players:

I'm not cbetting for value, it's a bluff with two over cards and Sets up a multi street bluff if needed. It's not like V can call with AT for 3 streets.

Oh, I was confused and thought it was 400$ effective. Bet/fold turn for 160$.

So, just to be clear, and for no other reason: You are betting the flop to get someone who flopped a pair of T to fold?

No no, fold out pocket pairs, Tx (may need to double/triple barrel) etc. I'm basically betting flop to get hands with decent or better equity against mine to fold.
I understand AT wont fold here, but if I don't bet here, I will lose the ability to bluff later streets of not favourable cards come.

I MAY be get called by worse off hands such as naked draws, which I can play in position again (As if the spade comes in on the turn)
It's a combo sort of bet, by checking, I think I turn my hand face up and lose the ability to take this pot down Away from somewhat fit/fold scared to put big money in type villains in this hand (bb/utg+1)

I understand my thought process is a bit all over the place in villain reads, but these were unique villains I can't really describe, the table dynamic was not the norm. I generally make the bulk of my profits playing against daytime bad regs/recs which had a very static dynamic.

You are simply not getting 3 people to fold this flop and what turns/rivers are you going to double/triple barrell? Sometimes the best play is to just realize our own equity.

Wtf how are you guys not betting here on flop.

As played bet like 200 or so on turn

400 bb deep really? 4 ways on 48T J? Against a weak tight field?

Edit: my bad, misread stakes we are 200 bb.

dont mind preflop but c bet I am not really loving just for the fact that it hits villains range a lot harder than ours and we are just bloating the pot.
while the turn card is pretty decent I would be betting just for the fact that there are a lot of draws are now out there.
if the villain calls there are a lot of cards on the river that can put us in a tough spot.
you say he is pretty fit or fold?? now that he is calling you know he has something.
hands that you want him to call are things like pair+ straight draw, flush draws, Tx's

On the turn I guess I would bet 200ish just to set us up for the jam depending on what the river is but I feel that what ever we bet we are pot committing ourself either way

results would be nice to hear

Nvm. Misread hand.