$1/$3 at the local casino. The game has a mixture of older players and two big calling stations to my right.

Reads:
Hero (CO, $305): Just got back from dinner break, so only a few people know my image, which is, due to cards, rock-tight so far.
V1 (SB, $500): Older white person, came in during my dinner break so I have no reads on him so far.
V2 (HJ, $600): Middle-aged asian guy. The biggest fish at the table. Limp-calls a lot PF, including already cold-calling a 3-bet to $30 from the blinds after UTG+1 raised to $13 and the BTN reraised to $30 (he check/folded a J-8-xss flop that hand). He raises his big hands PF; so far hes shown down 10-10 and A-Qo when hes raised PF and gone to SD. In the A-Qo hand, he ended up shoving a 9-high board after raising pre and betting the flop, and was called by A-9, but he rivered a Q to scoop the pot.

Action:
Preflop ($4): HJ+1 limps, V2 limps, Hero has K-Q and raises to $18, SB reraises to $40, all folds to V2, who calls $40, Hero calls $22.
Flop ($121): Q-8-4
SB bets $40, V2 calls, Hero raises to $95, SB folds, V2 goes all-in, Hero has $170 behind. Hero??

Thoughts on the hand:
Preflop: After two limps from calling stations, KQs is a perfect hand to isolate to build a pot in position. Once the SB 3-bet, I planned on folding even though I was receiving good odds and was in position since I didn't want to play a pot heads up against an older person's strong 3-betting range. Once the fish cold-called $40, I felt it was +EV to call the 3-bet IP with a hand that flops well and play cautiously against the SB postflop.

Flop: The SB's $40 bet seemed pretty weak to me, and I felt like V2 would probably call the flop with any pair since hes been a pretty big station so far. Also, there are a lot of turn cards I don't like to see like an A, J, 10, 9, or diamond, so I decided to raise the flop. I made a small raise so that if the SB shoved, I could still begrudgingly fold, and if V2 called, I could shove most turn cards for a healthy $170. Once the SB folded, I felt great about my hand until V2 shoved. I discounted A-Q, K-K, and A-A because from our history he didn't seem trappy PF (plus since the older gentleman likely had AK pre and I have a king, the # of AA and KK combos is significantly reduced). Because of this, I really only put him on 8-8, 4-4, and a bunch of NFDs and SD + FDs.

Questions:
1) Do you fold to the small 3-bet PF, even though the biggest fish just limp-called a 13x raise and you have position on all opponents with a hand that flops well?
2) Do you raise flop (and fold to a shove from the 3-bettor) for the reasons I gave above, or do you think its more profitable to call and reevaluate turn?
3) Do you call V2s 3-bet shove OTF?

Pre- if I'm closing the action with this guy in the hand I am calling.

You really didn't raise enough to charge draws. Even a bare flush draw is getting 4.5 to 1 which isn't terrible since your IP but I go to 120 is and call shoves.

Even if The 3!er ships and v2 folds I cant get away from it you've put 40% of your stack in and there's dead money out there.


I feel like the best play in this spot is to call and re-eval. If you read V1 as weak, I feel like you can play close to perfectly in position in this hand.

I fold pre, KQ, suited or not, plays horribly in 3bet pots

I raise more preflop to have a better chance at isoing V2, plus we simply get more money in preflop against him (automatic win). I'd go $25 at my typical 1/3 table.

I also call the 3bet out of the blinds but only cuz we're getting 5:1 and have position and have a fish trapped in the hand. I'm clearly not playing for TP vs V1.

I think flop is much closer to a fold than it is a raise. How are we doing against an older white person's 3bet range out of the blinds? Not too good. But, we do have TP, and we're getting great odds, so I'm guessing it's too soon to fold. I call the flop and re-evaluate the turn. Even though there are a bunch of sucky turn cards, we called preflop to play cautiously postflop, so I think we have to continue with that plan and let position work for us.

As played, I've lost track of pot size and what odds we're getting, but I probably fold. Most typical players don't shove in 100 BB stacks on draws, they simply call and try to hit. If he has QJ, oh well.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Ya, i think now its pretty obvious that my biggest blunder was raising flop. From my experience the SBs 3-bet sizing and flop bet sizing on a wet board indicated to me he had a weak holding like AK or possibly JJ, and V2 would likely call with any pair OTF, so I raised a small amount so that if the SB reshoved I could fold, and if V2 called, I could shove the turn. But looking back, even though TPGK likely has both their ranges beat, it's still not a strong enough hand to want to play for stacks just yet, and I probably should have just called.

personally don't like the way you played any of this hand other than the initial raise preflop. getting 3bet sucks when you are holding KQ, even if it is suited. I understand a little why you did as once v2 called you were getting huge pot odds so cannot say its horrible to call. on the flop I hate the raise as we are in position so we can call, see what peels off on the turn, and either fold to a bet or take it down if checked to us. keeps pot control. now as played you asked about calling. You said yourself when v2 has a big hand he pushes hard so we can assume when he is on a draw he is not pushing, he would just call. so odds are he does not do this with a draw. His line screams either set or AQ, both of which have us absolutely crushed. Easy fold to this villain

Since we all agree that calling the flop is the best idea, what do you do OTT?
Turn ($241): 6, so the board reads Q-8-4-6

Hero has $225 behind. If the SB bets any reasonable amount OTT, its an easy fold; however, what do you do in the following scenarios?

Scenarios:
a) SB bets $40 again, V2 calls
b) SB bets $40 again, V2 folds
c) SB checks, V2 bets ~$75
d) SB checks, V2 bets ~$50
e) SB checks, V2 checks

If your answers to c-d differ, I'm curious to know what sizing V2 makes causes you to change your mind.

Based on your description of villain 2, I'm never folding to anything he does on this flop, once so much money has gone in pre.. only thing i fold to, is SB leading out >90 on the turn if you flatted the flop... Are you sure villain 2 doesn't shove monster draw on this flop?

I believe he would shove a monster draw OTF, which is why I'm a bit surprised by some responses saying that once I mistakenly raised OTF, I should still fold to the reshove by V2. I said he was a fish that limp-called a lot PF, but he wasn't incredibly passive postflop (like the hand in the OP when he shoved a 9-high board w/ A-high and sucked out on the river)

Don't raise/fold top pair with an SPR of TWO.

Jesus Christ...

lol +1

If we are raising this spot, it's obviously to play for stacks...

Considering our stack size, I prefer a flat on the flop. MAYBE if we were like 300 BBs deep we could raise/fold flop

1) without any reads, I will fold this hand even to the small raise. I would rather call with a PP and set mine since V2 is in the hand.
2) I would probably just call this flop since I wouldn't want V2 to fold
3) I call V2's shove all day. He has a lot of FDs and TP worst kickers in his range.