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1/3 NL: turn the stones.  Shove turn or wait until river? 1/3 NL: turn the stones.  Shove turn or wait until river?

05-20-2017 , 12:12 PM
Grunching- I 3-bet to 50 pre- as you can Iso the fish...while you said no one respects your image it seems that the rest of the players are waiting for premiums to 4-bet so iso-raising the spot seems good. As played it's a clear raise on the flop...on the turn if your image was really garbage I think shove is prob best...check isn't bad but you prob get value when the spot has an overpair/ Q or NFD, maybe from T9(fish after all)...against the reg-type player you get action from Qs and maybe some calls with AxJx,KxTx,Tx9x where X is the
backdoor suit on the flop
Lol I misread OP and thought that another reg type player overcalled the flop...still think the hand was wp

Last edited by kimoser22; 05-20-2017 at 12:33 PM.
1/3 NL: turn the stones.  Shove turn or wait until river? Quote
05-20-2017 , 12:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Checkmaker
what "real information" are you talking about? what do you mean by "range threshholds"? i have a very good reason(experience and logic) to believe that shoving is not making the most money from his range. you force him off his drawing hands and hands that would call a shove on this turn are very unlikely to call a suck bet on the turn and then fold river. in fact he's more likely to call the suck bet on the turn and the jam on the river than a jam on the turn. keep in mind OP described villain as a bad level 1 opponent. are you not taking into account the opponent or are you just thinking about how to play the hand regardless of who you are up against????

you really think you should be shoving this turn with 100% of your range 100% of the time??? you need to rethink how you are approaching the game. if you had a hand like ATdd taking the free card on the turn is a good idea. first of all you block villain from having draws to the nutflush as well as block some of his straight draws and you dont block any Qs or Js.



how exactly is it a bad assumption that jamming turn forces our opponent off K7dd? even a bad opponent like this one knows not to call 3/4 PSB all-in drawing to a flush on the turn.

you're just very clearly wrong about your approach to this hand and I encourage you to explore and think about different approaches. dont be rigid in your mindset, we are all fallible.
Have you played LLSNL lately? Vs call with naked FDs, especially ones described as spots... and with AdKd, other combo draws he prob still calls, he was towards the bottom of his range...We get value from the rest of his range...now knowing that he folds naked draws to 2/3 sized bets you can adjust accordingly...
1/3 NL: turn the stones.  Shove turn or wait until river? Quote
05-20-2017 , 02:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kimoser22
Have you played LLSNL lately? Vs call with naked FDs, especially ones described as spots... and with AdKd, other combo draws he prob still calls, he was towards the bottom of his range...We get value from the rest of his range...now knowing that he folds naked draws to 2/3 sized bets you can adjust accordingly...
yes i have. and no they don't call near pot sized all-in(90bbs) with naked flush draws on the turn on a paired board. not even level 1 spots as described in OP. shoving this turn is terrible and i find it amusing that anyone thinks otherwise.

hands like AKdd and KTdd probably just get it in on the flop since V is OOP so the chance of him having those hands are reduced.

i knew villain would fold draws before results were posted. and made hands are going to get it in by the river anyways. what does shoving this turn accomplish that betting $100 turn and $160 river doesnt? you guys seriously think we are missing value from draws by making a suck bet on the turn instead of jamming? we block a Q so villains hand is weighted towards having a draw and other pairs. our suck bet on the turn targets those hands perfectly. and when we make a strong all-in later against competent opponents who were paying attention to this hand we will get called down light because they will reason that we play our nutted hands meekly.
1/3 NL: turn the stones.  Shove turn or wait until river? Quote

      
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