1/3 - Middle set on monotone board - Page 2 - Live Low-stakes No Limit Poker Forum

And my point is how does limping QQ equate to not playing it?

Also, the gap in the profitability of hands goes *way* down as stacks go up, especially OOP, especially against difficult players.

Gstill,theideaofswitchingtablesisaperfectlyvalidon eG

I'm just saying that it's not the optimal way to play the hand. Sure we'll get put into some tricky spots when we're deeper and against good players that'll definitely suck. But against the average player pool at these stakes, we should be able to out play them postflop and if we're limping QQ, there's a good chance we're leaving money on the table. Hopefully, you're not at a table that can make your life a living hell at 1/3NL...

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07-19-2017 , 02:55 PM

#27

brownthunder

enthusiast

Join Date: Apr 2017 Posts: 51

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobbledygeek

OP, how often do you see $700 stacks go in, even in your "action packed" game, without ~nuttish hands?

I also play in a 1/3 NL game that I typically consider "action packed" due to the number of preflop callers that will call large raises. But I see $700 stacks go in pretty much never in this exact same "action packed" game, and when they do, it's cooler time.

Gthisisnotacooler,imoG

GG, stacks GII on overpair flops (i.e. KK on 10 7 2) board, sets are pretty much always GII (unless 4 to a straight or 4 to a flush, but people usually will just call and not raise). Any flush (doesn't have to be nutted) is getting it in, even on paired boards. Maybe these do not hold true for 250BB stacks, but between ~100-200BB I believe this is the case.

Granted there is a subset of the player pool that commits these sins, and not necessarily all of them.

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07-19-2017 , 03:18 PM

#28

gobbledygeek

Poet Laureate of LLSNL

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 36,142

Quote:

Originally Posted by polakpoker4

But against the average player pool at these stakes, we should be able to out play them postflop

As the years pass, the more I'm not as confident in this.

Galthoughthat'smoreacommentabouthowIseemyownrelati veabilities,andwheremywheelhouse/comfortzoneisG

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07-19-2017 , 03:21 PM

#29

gobbledygeek

Poet Laureate of LLSNL

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 36,142

Quote:

Originally Posted by brownthunder

In my games, there is a *massive* difference (like, simply non-comparable) to how people play 100bb stacks vs 250bb stacks.

GyourexperiencemaydifferG

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07-19-2017 , 07:53 PM

#30

JB Clark

banned

Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 673

Ok so i did some gto math starting with villains range pre.

Villain should not have any unsuited aces of clubs in his hand when we raise to 5x in LP. So he has a a flush a lot. We are blocking the queens so there are only 7 combos we are ahead of. The number of combos ahead of us is 17. This happened before we bet the flop. This is a bad board for us. We have like, the umpteenth nuts on a flop we never get called. I really dont want to put any money into this flop. Its not a good hand OTF. Only slightly better than top 2p which is all but a dead hand when called or raised

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07-19-2017 , 08:59 PM

#31

Leobzook

banned

Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,125

Quote:

Originally Posted by JB Clark

Ok so i did some gto math starting with villains range pre.

Villain should not have any unsuited aces of clubs in his hand when we raise to 5x in LP. So he has a a flush a lot.

Villain can have AcK, AcQ, AcJ

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07-19-2017 , 09:17 PM

#32

Tiltyjoker

Pooh-Bah

Join Date: Jul 2006 Posts: 4,608

Quote:

Originally Posted by gobbledygeek

I'm cool with preflop. The deeper the table / more action packed it is, the more open limping becomes an option for me, although I'm guessing most disagree with that. Sounds like you might have a looser aggro image than I do, so raising is probably better in your case.

I'm not so sure I bet so much on this flop. I'd probably only go about 1/2 PSB so I can more easily call a raise (if one comes). We can also easily decide if we want to continue if a four-to-a-flush/straight come, so offering decent 3:1 to these hands is fine. There's also decent stacks behind; even though we obviously have a strong hand, it's not exactly nuttish on this board, so I'm not exactly looking to play for stacks (if we end up playing for stacks UI, very good chance we're behind).

And here's the problem with the big flop bet, as now we face a big raise and big turn bet with not nearly enough behind to make continuing profitable (if we're behind).

Do you really have guys bluffing / semi-bluffing off $700 stacks in your game on a regular basis? My game typically doesn't see this *at all*. So the real question is does he think his made hand is better than our made hand and is willing to play for huge $700 stacks. Even JJ, let alone KQ/QJ (very few combos) and KJ, you'd think would be very wary against a preflop raiser on this board for these stack sizes.

Also depends on what "older asian guy" means in your game. From what I've seen in forums, most take this as wild/gambool/gambool. That is not really my experience, but yours may differ.

Greallygrossspot,imoG

Open limp the LJ? The hell........................

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07-19-2017 , 09:22 PM

#33

JB Clark

banned

Join Date: Jun 2017 Posts: 673

Yeah thats 7 combos

I simply assigned villain a GTO pf range which doesnt have any naked Ac

Im discounting unsuited tens too so...

All suited Ac = 9
Suited connectors 45cc,56cc,67cc,78cc,89cc,9Tcc
Gappers 79cc,8Tcc

Assuming he 3bets all AK/JJ+

Only beating 4 combos and beat by 17

That leaves TcTx i suppose too but im not counting on that hand. Not sure if i believe thats in his range to bet 325

This is a fold OTT

Last edited by JB Clark; 07-19-2017 at 09:30 PM.

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07-20-2017 , 08:16 AM

#34

haha_TP

grinder

Join Date: May 2014 Posts: 558

Never checking this flop 3 handed. I agree with just call on the flop. Turn is an easy fold when he bets near pot. He's got AT or a flush like always + we're getting a poor price to boat up.

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