Mr. Raiseypants had AA, quickly check/calls my flop shove, and his hand holds up. Being even more results oriented, a K comes on the turn, so my goose was cooked either way, but that doesn't matter.
Even though I double him up, he continues his same game and eventually drops 2 BI in a couple of hours. I don't believe he was ever 3bet preflop again, so I still don't know his raise/calling range, but so far its AA.
Mr. Raiseypants had AA, quickly check/calls my flop shove, and his hand holds up. Being even more results oriented, a K comes on the turn, so my goose was cooked either way, but that doesn't matter.
Even though I double him up, he continues his same game and eventually drops 2 BI in a couple of hours. I don't believe he was ever 3bet preflop again, so I still don't know his raise/calling range, but so far its AA.
Obviously now I really like my line (I did recommend it before I knew results), we get the same information and lose much less. Remember, LAG fish do wake up with hands. Raising the flop would have likely netted you a shove from him and easy fold.
No one has 3bet this guy yet, so I'm not exactly sure what his tendencies are. I'm assuming he folds the trashier end (in which case I'm totally cool with winning 8 BBs preflop).
I agree that no pair is folding this flop (unlike, say, 88 on a AT3 flop). But I think I probably get everything else to fold, which has the benefit of getting Ax hands to fold plus I don't open myself up to getting bluffed by mr. laggy on the turn when I whiff again.
Agree that if I'm jamming flop that I should have 3bet more preflop.
So far the consensus is 0/3. Any other opinions?
GcluelessNLnoobG
I like the play. As a SLAG player myself, I am always waiting for someone at a passive/tight table to play back at me as my cue to fold. I think he is always folding here unless he has top pair +.
LOL @ the comments suggesting that the LAG has us beat PF. If villian has TT+, AJ+, he is shipping it pre. The top of his range here is JTsuited and pocket pairs << 88
the only thing that I do not like about the play is that the shove on the flop looks too bluffy and if he has a pair, he might be able to pick it off. If you c-bet 85, that looks much much stronger, like you are trying to get value from your overpair. If he shoves, so what? you are calling 55 to win 400.
You do realize that there is difference in raising preflop with crap and calling a large three bet or even a normal sized three bet with crap right? Even the donkiest of donks' minimum three bet calling range is something like QJ.
LOL.
please stop posting until you have played at least 100 hours live
You guys are clueless as to how fish play, you put him on >QK and have him thinking he's pot commited. He's a fish, and he wants to suck out on what looks like KK+
this.
why are internet players posting in the live forum?
the only thing that I do not like about the play is that the shove on the flop looks too bluffy and if he has a pair, he might be able to pick it off. If you c-bet 85, that looks much much stronger, like you are trying to get value from your overpair. If he shoves, so what? you are calling 55 to win 400.
IF he hero called here with AQ... sigh.
This is solid.
The V is often much better playing post flop than most people give him credit for and this is especially so in the area of picking up on player post flop tendencies. They often have outsized egos and love to pick off bluffs. You see them win a lot of medium sized pots at showdown with second pair because they know where they are in the hand at all times and they are picking up almost all of the dead money in a session. At the same time, they know when to get away from hands as well.
If you play your repped hand (AA/KK) face up post flop, you will give him less opportunity to pick off your bluffs (a shove looks a lot like AK/medium pairs - but especially AK here) so you widen his calling range to include any pair including 22.
I have seen these guys come and go over the years and what normally burns them is playing bigger games where more competent players burn them, table games, bad BR management, drugs and life etc.
They actually have some mad keen skills at small games where they can crush but their life leaks get in the way.
This hand was a good example.... the V played the hand well and let the H level himself into oblivion.
I the V played the hand well and let the H level himself into oblivion.
Agree villain played the hand fine but let's not go over board with our praise. Totally disagree that hero levelled himself in any way.
From our observation of this villain coupled with experience of players who open 74o in the player pool as whole, Hero took a line he believed would be profitable.
Villain had top of his range. When spewy players have the top of their range they will win money.
I mean lets be totally clear here. Villain is opening a ridic wide range to 7BBs. How can 3 betting not be profitable? He either folds a **** load or calls with bad hands!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Agree villain played the hand fine but let's not go over board with our praise. Totally disagree that hero levelled himself in any way.
From our observation of this villain coupled with experience of players who open 74o in the player pool as whole, Hero took a line he believed would be profitable.
Villain had top of his range. When spewy players have the top of their range they will win money.
I mean lets be totally clear here. Villain is opening a ridic wide range to 7BBs. How can 3 betting not be profitable? He either folds a **** load or calls with bad hands!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No leveling anywhere.
Obv V is at the top of his range but he doesn't call 3 bets/spew light post flop.
I think he calls a shove with 22-1010 for the same result in this hand b/c V is thinking H never shoves AA/KK here but if the OTF bet was not a shove, the V folds most of that range, session/image dependent.
Obv V is at the top of his range but he doesn't call 3 bets/spew light post flop.
I think he calls a shove with 22-1010 for the same result in this hand b/c V is thinking H never shoves AA/KK here but if the OTF bet was not a shove, the V folds most of that range, session/image dependent.
so our 3 bet and c bet are massively +EV then, because he is folding so much.
so our 3 bet and c bet are massively +EV then, because he is folding so much.
The 3 bet is profitable and I have never thought otherwise.
But a call means that we have to evaluate V's range which includes 22-1010 or at least 22-88 - therefore a post flop shove looks bluffy vs a 75-80% of pot bet which looks stronger (QQ/KK/AA) and will get a fold more often.
Obv, if V had SC that did not hit, he is folding to a shove here but they make up only 50-60% of his 3 bet calling range so a smaller bet OTF is overall much more effective here.
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