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Old 05-23-2012, 10:43 PM   #76
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Re: 1/3 live - KQo vs Mr. Raiseypants

when we reference FE its a reference to preflop action.

calling is probably more EV than folding fwiw, and 3b pre is by far easiest answer.

why are you guys clogging this thread with such bad advices
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:48 PM   #77
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Re: 1/3 live - KQo vs Mr. Raiseypants

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Originally Posted by dhcg86 View Post
when we reference FE its a reference to preflop action.

calling is probably more EV than folding fwiw, and 3b pre is by far easiest answer.

why are you guys clogging this thread with such bad advices
When you actually win money from poker or figure out a way to apply all the so-called knowledge that you have of this game, then maybe you can actually make above statement.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:50 PM   #78
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Re: 1/3 live - KQo vs Mr. Raiseypants

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Originally Posted by dhcg86 View Post
when we reference FE its a reference to preflop action.

calling is probably more EV than folding fwiw, and 3b pre is by far easiest answer.

why are you guys clogging this thread with such bad advices
This makes zero sense. (Note to self: update IGNORE list)
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:52 PM   #79
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Re: 1/3 live - KQo vs Mr. Raiseypants

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Originally Posted by SeaUlater View Post
IMO, villain is only playing the absolute strength of his hand and doesn't care much about what hero's range of hands is.
Lots of aggro fish will shove the Turn on that board to a flop check figuring hero does not have a pair and can't call.

You will get lots of calls with 22-1010 or even JJ and your Flop shove will get them confused or in two minds about a call - a lot will call thinking you have air or AK.

On balance, I think an 80-90% PSB will fold out more 22-JJ type hands and all AK hands than a shove will.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:54 PM   #80
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Re: 1/3 live - KQo vs Mr. Raiseypants

There's a misconception that we're folding out anything but a complete missed of the board.

I think this villain is unbluffable until proven otherwise, and I see no reason trying to bluff said player.
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Old 05-23-2012, 10:57 PM   #81
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Re: 1/3 live - KQo vs Mr. Raiseypants

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There's a misconception that we're folding out anything but a complete missed of the board.
Sometimes I think the majority of this forum is just one big misconception.

Anyway, I wanna smack stampler for bringing in a troll. We were perfectly happy with the one we had...

EDIT:

I suppose I should add something of worth to the discussion. I'll address Seaulater since he is one of the few intelligent posters presenting a well thought out argument.

Seaulater: If villain is simply playing the strength of his hand and folding if he missed or calling with 88-JJ, wouldn't that give us good reason to shove and take advantage of our fold equity?

Last edited by TAOxEaglex; 05-23-2012 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:04 PM   #82
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Sometimes I think the majority of this forum is just one big misconception.

Anyway, I wanna smack stampler for bringing in a troll. We were perfectly happy with the one we had...
Lmao, this thread is a mess, I stop reading after I decided to limp reraise. Then I come back and see people making references to trolling. People can't except poker is not played one way.
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Old 05-23-2012, 11:15 PM   #83
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Re: 1/3 live - KQo vs Mr. Raiseypants

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Seaulater: If villain is simply playing the strength of his hand and folding if he missed or calling with 88-JJ, wouldn't that give us good reason to shove and take advantage of our fold equity?
I think we can accomplish the same thing by betting slightly more than the size of our 3-bet.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:04 AM   #84
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Re: 1/3 live - KQo vs Mr. Raiseypants

With a 200 stack eff, i would 3 bet to 42. I would underbet cbet the flop only to narrow his range a bit. If called you most likely are behind and unless a paint hits the river or A , then you lose. (Which is fine)
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Old 05-24-2012, 09:56 AM   #85
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Re: 1/3 live - KQo vs Mr. Raiseypants

Yeah smaller 3bet is better, and allows us room to b/f post. As played...urgh really bad spot.

People saying don't 3bet KQos vs this guy....lolwot? flat and 3bet are fine, and I'm also fine trying to get a dynamic going with this guy if he plays that spewey.
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Old 05-24-2012, 10:20 AM   #86
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Re: 1/3 live - KQo vs Mr. Raiseypants

3bet > fold > call

If you were planning to shove any flop, we can go a bit higher on your 3bet. What BGP says.
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Old 05-24-2012, 11:41 AM   #87
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Re: 1/3 live - KQo vs Mr. Raiseypants

The 3-bet thing has been beat to death, so I'm not going to address it. I want to clarify what I think is a GREAT line here that has only been touched on - the flat/raise flop.

If you flat his PFR and get heads up, or EVEN three way is good since you say the table dynamic is that no one is really playing back at him, my plan would be to raise the flop most of the time!

You state multiple times that he is c-betting every flop, so why not just let him put some bad money in and raise him off almost everything that whiffs?

Here is how I see the pot going the 50+% of the time I DON'T 3-bet:
Flat pre pot is $39 after rake.
V c-bets $20-30 (note someone said V will pot c-bet, I doubt this big time as most V's like this have no sense of pot/bet sizing).
Pot is ~$65, we raise to ~$70 (I'd go with 2.5x whatever he bets).
He folds all whiffs and even some hands that are ahead.
He shoves anything that is a decent hand and we can fold losing only $80-90, almost the same amount we lose if we 3-bet and give up when the pot is re-popped by someone or he shoves.

IF you get another caller this line is even better AND looks stronger.

Pot is $59 OTF, he bets $20, we raise to $60 and win $60!!!

I'm not discounting 3-betting, but vs this player I think this line is great (I think it looks WAY stronger to fish) since it really makes him define his hand and we risk almost the same amount. He will wake up with a hand once in a while, and I don't want to pay him off for $200 with K high. Also, you keep from getting into a pissing match with a guy who is there just to try and out-piss everyone by calling 3-bets and shoves with any pair.

FWIW I had KQ at a table with a similar V who was showing a lot of crazy plays (even showed when he woke up with KK), and I called a raise on the button with KQ. He c-bet a T84r flop and the other guy in the hand folded, I thought about raising and chickened out, he showed 32o. Would have won $50 after I looked really strong raising vs a fish!
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:04 PM   #88
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Re: 1/3 live - KQo vs Mr. Raiseypants

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I'd much rather call and play against his wide range than to 3B/F against him.
If I call, there's good a chance I'm not just playing against him postflop.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:04 PM   #89
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Re: 1/3 live - KQo vs Mr. Raiseypants

Result time, gobbledyol'man.
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Old 05-24-2012, 12:06 PM   #90
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Re: 1/3 live - KQo vs Mr. Raiseypants

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I do not think villain will turn his hand into a bluff on turn if we check, and if he checks again on turn, I am pretty certain he's folding to our bet.
I'm not sure of this. Villain has already proven he's very aggro (raising most hands, cbetting like 100%). I'm not really sure what his later street tendencies are (in the 74o hand he did check the turn with bottom pair on the turn, but that was after his opponent had shown some sign of strength by calling his cbet), but I think he *might* be capable of attempting to take the pot on the turn if I check the flop.
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