Originally Posted by 11t
Of course 3betting PF is +EV if you have an equity edge vs his range. Wtf.
Just for the record, I didn't/am not saying 3betting pre is not +EV and am certainly not making an argument that you only get called by better. My first instinct in reading this thread was that it's pretty standard...nh/wp. However, I'm just bringing up the question (and am still uncertain) whether 3betting pre is any more +EV than flatting pre. I'm bringing this up for a couple of reasons:
1) When we 3bet pre, with villain's effective stack consideration, is there a possibility that villain becomes more ATTACHED to his hand, and thus our FE shrinks to almost zero? ( we already know that we have close to zero FE preflop. I'm talking about flops that we whiff) Does villain (given reads on his look/appearance) not want to get bullied off of the pot and would boost his own ego by hero-calling us super light?
2) When we flat pre, we haven't seized initiative from him. The dynamics of this table have not changed (he raises pre and takes down most pots preflop or by flop bet) So if we flat pre and then raise villain's flop cbet (for value or as a bluff) can we assume our FE is higher?
If the answer is "yes", then is our FE + our hand equity greater if we flat preflop vs. 3bet pre??
This is basically what I am asking....Note: I am not advocating a defacto flat pre line..it's just a nice discussion to have
Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer
We flat, pot it 43.
Villain cbets 30 and we jam 180?
3betting pre is way better.
True...but if he pots the flop, then a shove is basically the same ratio
$123 in the pot and $140 to call