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| Live Low-stakes NL Discussion of up to 3/5 live no-limit, pot-limit and spread-limit Texas Hold'em poker games, situations and strategies. |
02-07-2012, 03:42 PM
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#1
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,884
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1/3 - bottom two in limped pot, a flop bet and 6 callers to me on button...
1/3 NL, 10 players
Thought I had an alright session last night with no glaring mistakes (my goal being to cut down on my mistakes at the table), with the possible exception of this one.
Loose table. Stacks all over the place from 30 BBs to a couple of guys who are sitting with 400 BBs (and these guys called flop bet). Typical stack is probably around 100 BBs. Some of the flop callers are tricky (including biggest stack guy who is getting hit in the face with the deck and thus not realizing he's is losing massive value with his multiple failed attempts at check/raising big streets with with nice hands). Some of the flop callers are weak passive and only get the chips in when they feel they have the nuts (and how can they know they have the nuts without seeing the river first?).
Anyhoo, 5 limpers to me on the Button with 8  6  . Table is extremely loose so I decide to not do anything fancy and just see a flop. Blinds complete.
Flop (8 players, $24): J  8  6 
SB leads $10, all 6 opponents call, action on Hero...
There's now $94 in the pot. I've got approximately $300 in my stack and bottom two on a drawy board with position.
I know folding would be bad.
Is calling vs raising close? Not close? If I raise, I'm assuming I'd have to make it $100+. Could I fold to a reraise having put in 1/3+ of my stack? Obviously I'd have to ship the rest on a safe turn (not exactly a lotta safe turns). Or can I simply quietly call and evaluate the turn action, where my equity will most likely change drastically plus I'll be able to see the actions of my 7 opponents in front of me?
Gquietlycalled,butdidn'tfeelfantasticaboutitG
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02-07-2012, 03:46 PM
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#2
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veteran
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,952
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Re: 1/3 - bottom two in limped pot, a flop bet and 6 callers to me on button...
would raising to $75 here be all that bad? that's about a 3/4 pot sized bet. If you get shoved in on then you aren't committed.
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02-07-2012, 03:51 PM
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#3
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LLSNL Chat Thread Balla
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Wearing Looeys that be like $800
Posts: 4,248
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Re: 1/3 - bottom two in limped pot, a flop bet and 6 callers to me on button...
Calling is very very very safe, but I think pretty bad overall. Good thing about calling is this.. IF a brick turns someone gon' bet and you may be able to get stacks in there. That's a big if though. I think you hate just about every card with the exception of the 2d,s,c and the 3d,s,c... therefore I am raising. I honestly could care less to see another card so I am probably over betting this. I think our value is what is in the pot ATM. Get that and run.
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02-07-2012, 03:52 PM
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#4
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journeyman
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 265
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Re: 1/3 - bottom two in limped pot, a flop bet and 6 callers to me on button...
Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
Gquietlycalled,butdidn'tfeelfantasticaboutitG
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I think your weak-tight tendency is rearing its ugly head again.
Absolute must raise here, especially in position. You have blockers to most hands that have you beat right now (88, 66, J8, J6) and JJ would have raised pre-flop. The string of callers on such a drawy board should tell you that you have the best hand - anyone with a set or 2-pair would have raised already.
If you call here, you're only going to be happy with an 8, 6, or offsuit 2 or 3 on the turn. Rest of the deck sucks for you.
Agree with raising to $100, which will likely take down the pot. If you get called, stuff the rest in on non-heart turns (may have to re-think a bit on a straightening turn).
P.S. No offense meant with the weak-tight comment - obv you're a good poster and winning player - just think you could win more by being more aggressive.
P.P.S. did the fact that you've just come off of 4-losing sessions before your last one affect your play here?
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02-07-2012, 03:54 PM
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#5
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: No MC? Boxer will do
Posts: 5,555
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Re: 1/3 - bottom two in limped pot, a flop bet and 6 callers to me on button...
lol fold?
such a sick spot. I don't like calling, folding, or raising.
I think I call and re-eval the turn. our safe turn cards are pretty much 2,3,6,8 and i dont know about anything else.
If you are going to raise, I think you have to make it a hundo. I would hate to make it 75, get one caller, and all of a sudden, get an avalanche of callers. If I make it 100 and get 1 or 2 callers, i still have no idea whats safe and what isn't. i think we call and re-eval.
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02-07-2012, 03:54 PM
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#6
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old hand
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,218
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Re: 1/3 - bottom two in limped pot, a flop bet and 6 callers to me on button...
Raise to $100.
I just don't see anyone having a strong hand here by just calling. 9Thh 79hh etc prolly raise. So does J8
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02-07-2012, 03:56 PM
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#7
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enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: FL
Posts: 90
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Ship...someone will call with worse.
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02-07-2012, 04:00 PM
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#8
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,006
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Re: 1/3 - bottom two in limped pot, a flop bet and 6 callers to me on button...
Bet is too small to raise to 75$/100$ your tipping your hand. Raise 1/3rd of the pot you don't want him to fold tp. Raise to 35$, raising to 100 is lol bad, you only get called by better 2pair+.
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02-07-2012, 04:02 PM
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#9
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,884
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Re: 1/3 - bottom two in limped pot, a flop bet and 6 callers to me on button...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dionysus1
P.P.S. did the fact that you've just come off of 4-losing sessions before your last one affect your play here?
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Didn't play in at all with my mindset, especially since I broke that streak the previous session and booked a 100+ BB win.
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02-07-2012, 04:03 PM
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#10
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,884
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Re: 1/3 - bottom two in limped pot, a flop bet and 6 callers to me on button...
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeHeHawHaw
Ship...someone will call with worse.
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Ha, this actually crossed my mind.
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02-07-2012, 04:05 PM
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#11
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,884
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Re: 1/3 - bottom two in limped pot, a flop bet and 6 callers to me on button...
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokahBlows
Bet is too small to raise to 75$/100$ your tipping your hand. Raise 1/3rd of the pot you don't want him to fold tp. Raise to 35$, raising to 100 is lol bad, you only get called by better 2pair+.
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Lol at raising to $35. So you're saying I should give the first of 7 opponents 6.5:1 odds? What's the point?
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02-07-2012, 04:07 PM
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#12
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Pooh-Bah
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gobbledygeek
Lol at raising to $35. So you're saying I should give the first of 7 opponents 6.5:1 odds? What's the point?
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Fish can see a reraise. Who say's they all call?
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02-07-2012, 04:08 PM
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#13
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,884
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Re: 1/3 - bottom two in limped pot, a flop bet and 6 callers to me on button...
Quote:
Originally Posted by LolPony
Raise to $100.
I just don't see anyone having a strong hand here by just calling. 9Thh 79hh etc prolly raise. So does J8
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Are we calling a ship?
I guess my reasoning in this hand was that while I definitely wasn't happy seeing a turn card, I thought I might be less happy getting in all my chips on the flop with bottom two pair vs a field of SEVEN opponents, all of whom seem to have enough to call a flop bet. i.e. the more opponents, the stronger our hand has to be to happily ship 100 BBs on the flop in a limped pot.
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02-07-2012, 04:09 PM
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#14
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adept
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Anthony Davis sweepstakes winner?
Posts: 1,099
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Raise to 100 call a ship. Hate literally every turn. If your going to call flop you may as well save the 10 and fold we will hate every turn and every river that isn't a boat
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02-07-2012, 04:11 PM
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#15
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Carpal \'Tunnel
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 7,884
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Re: 1/3 - bottom two in limped pot, a flop bet and 6 callers to me on button...
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokahBlows
Fish can see a reraise. Who say's they all call?
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Board is fairly drawy and your suggestion is to offer 6.5:1 odds to the first of seven opponents (thus the next caller will be getting 7.5:1, and so on)?
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