Villain (CO): 30 ish white guy, TAG and has grinded 2/5 a previous summer apparently ($500)
Hero (HJ): mid 20s Asian, TAG image ($600)

Hero opens $12 with AK. Villain makes it $35. Folded back to hero who calls.

Flop: AQ5:spade ($69)

Checked through.

Turn: 7 ($69)

Hero bets $45. Villain thinks for a while and calls.

River: 8 ($159)

Hero bets $80. Villain thinks for a while and makes it $265.

This line doesn't make much sense. I block AA, and AA probably bets this. Same with QQ, AQ or any value hand. Highly doubt he 3 bets a hand like 76 then checks back a 7 high flush. Being a former 2/5 grinder, turning a made hand with a spade blocker into a bluff is certainly something he's capable of. Mandatory call right?

I don't mind the call relative to 4bet. Remember though that is an option as you are at the top of your range and 4betting AKs against this player type can never really be wrong. You're OOP with decent stacks behind so youre going to be put into tough spots like this.

As played, i think river is a check call instead. But since you bet i think this is a sigh call as youve got the nut one pair hand. I guess there are better hands you could have like two pairs/sets but he could definately just have the Ks and be doing this. Sigh call.

I guess I could x/c river but I feel like he's so capped I'm missing a potential street of value. Once he checks back flop I'm definitely gonna be bluffing aggressively with any draw and he probably knows that so good chance he can call worse.

The A and Q of spades are on the board. Once villain makes it $35 preflop what draws do you have in your range?

If you think villain is good enough to bluff raise or raise you off a chop then you should call this sometimes. It isn't mandatory though and judging when to call and when to fold is one of the hard skills. If he was a profitable low stakes TAG grinder then his basic strategy is going to be waiting for value and exploiting villains that are too aggressive or too stationary.

It's a TAG who used to grind 2/5. Definitely defending a LOT vs this guy as opposed to a random guy at 1/3. Getting better than 2 to 1, kind of deep and in late ish position I'm gonna have all suited broadways so I have a lot of gutshots I would bluff. Especially KJs and KTs since they block AK.

Looks like we're probably sitting in the worst seat at the table (directly OOP, deep, to a good player). Any reason we're doing this?

I would also typically open this *unless* I thought this exact scenario would happen (i.e. getting 3bet by tough villain), in which case I'd be cool with open limping / calling (underreps our hand making it easier to get paid off postflop, keeps pot smaller giving better IO, etc.).

I'll be in the minority here, but I would guess that flatting the 3bet preflop is unlikely to be profitable. We're OOP to a good villain who'll have initiative, and who'll likely lose very little on A/K flops if behind. We think this is profitable? I'd probably just fold as I'm guessing this is not where our money is coming from tonight. We could also think of 4betting, but that is quickly getting on our way to committing huge $500 stacks preflop, something I'm not really comfortable doing, especially at what (I'm guessing) is an otherwise profitable table.

I'm ok with our flop check; I'm assuming he cbets this a lot so we make money.

I'd also bet turn. He checked back flop so he likely has a showdownable hand that isn't looking to build a huge pot, so lets go for value against it and rep a busted flush draw.

Ditto for river.

Difficult spot when raised. Reasons for calling are all good. With the one exception: he's putting in almost a BI in on the river, and mostly people just do that when they want to get paid off.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Fold river. You are at the bottom of your value range and you have much better hands than this.

People also don't take villain's line as a bluff very often and it's quite likely that his bluffs would have bet the flop.

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I might be wrong, but I don't consider having a good TAG on my left a bad thing. I'd rather have TAGs on my left and loose passive fish on my right cause TAGs are more likely to want to avoid playing against me for the most part. Occasionally they'll 3 bet me but in my experience they tend to leave me alone. So having TAGs on my left and the loose passive fish on my right allows me to raise wider pre.

If I'm folding AKs to a single 3 bet vs a TAG who very likely 3 bet bluffs, then every TAG should 3 bet a 20% range vs me. Also I disagree that we're not gonna get paid on A or K high flops. TAGs who 3 bet bluff also barrel. I agree with betting both turn and river though when it's likely I have the best hand.

This is interesting because you have two opposing points:

1) I find people rarely bluff raise river
2) His line looks really strange. Against a monotone flop, I'm not expecting him to slow play and check any made hand like AK, AQ, AA, QQ.

Do we think KsJs - unless we think he 3 bets that, we can rule it out.

The most likely hand here feels like KsKx assuming he's doing regular 3 bets. Perhaps JsJx. I guess AxKs is possible too.

I think I sigh call this.

It really depends. If he's not in a lotta pots, just playing ABC against the fish and not picking on us, etc. then we might be ok with sitting to his direct right (sitting to the direct right of face up ABC non-bluffy non-difficult nits when deep is fine). But mainly stack sizes dictate my seat position, especially against a player who might be difficult. This guy is capable of 3bet bluffing / barrelling? This guy is a difficult player and not someone I'm looking to be OOP in hand when deep.

GcluelessseatpositionnoobG

The thing is at 1/3 it's possible to be selective cause there's maybe one good player at the table if any. At higher stakes half the table's gonna be filled with good players most of the table, especially if everyone's trying to bum hunt a whale. I think leaning towards a semi-GTO approach vs them allows me to not fear them. Even when deep. In fact some of these internet kids probably 3 bet too bluff heavy and bluff too much post flop. Might even be good to exploitatively call wide vs some of them. It's better to learn how to deal with them now than at higher stakes.

If villain is really a low stakes 2/5 grinder I'm defending less against his 3 bets rather then more. That may be a side effect of the player pool though. The 2/5 grinders are Parx generally have very nitty 3 betting ranges, it's 95% pure value with the occasional bluff just so they can show you the bluff. Once he makes it $35 the SPR won't be big and cuts a lot of maneuvering range and fishing range with KJs and KTs type hands out.

SPR of 5 still allows for plenty of play post flop. That's bigger than a typical SPR in a 3 bet pot in online poker 100bb deep.

I've never played a single hand of on-line poker, but my understanding (correct me if I'm wrong) is that preflop raises are typically *way* smaller than live, and thus the resulting 3bet pot SPR would mostly be *way* larger in a on-line game than a live game (given same stacks sizes). No?

An SPR of 5 is quite small. Hand should be over with by the turn (or at the very least we'll be facing a commitment decision by the turn).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Opens are typically 3x. A 3 bet is usually 9x or 10x. Then the resulting pot is just over 20 bbs with 90 bb stacks, assuming 100 bbs to start.

Is 3betting a 3x raise to 9x typical for on-line? I have zero clue (I thought perhaps it was smaller?) but it doesn't matter: even using this example, the live hand still produces a slightly smaller SPR. Given that $12 (4x) is a fairly small raise at a live 1/3 NL table, in general, most 3bet pots will create a smaller SPR than on-line. Also, in live there is much more chance (from what I understand, again, correct me if I'm wrong) of multiple limpers / callers before the 3bet, which will also create a much smaller SPR live than on-line.

GcluelessNLnoobG

Not in a 500 max between regs though. And especially if regs are sitting deep.

You're playing in a ridiculously tough 1-3 game/pool if this is bluff. Would expect a coyly played flopped flush often in my games. If you're gonna b/f the river, don't forget the f part.

Ok, if you're getting at that live games often feature larger stack sizes than on-line (I plead ignorance on this) and thus 3bet pots live will often create higher SPRs than 3bet pots on-line, fair enough (but also kinda "of course" if we're comparing totally different stack sizes).

Still doesn't take away from the fact that an SPR of 5 is pretty small / doesn't have all that much play.

Gcluelesson-linenoobG

Why not? Requires 60% pot on three streets to get stacks in. Obviously doesn't allow raise bet shove but still a decent amount of play imo. You play in many limped or single raised pots I guess?

But what flopped flushes are in his 3b range? KJs perhaps, but villain is TAG grinder.

3betting suited connectors all the rage these days. TAG grinder at 1-3 is a unicorn ime. Guess hero sees QQ quite a bit. I don't play against anybody that shows up with KK here.

Villain tank call on turn then raise river smells imo

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That's a good point, especially since the river really changes nothing.

OP - results now?

I tanked a long time. Someone almost called the clock on me but didn't cause he was eating his salad. I called. He had KQ with K.