Hero (BTN, $350): Extremely snug, winning reg.

V (BB, covers): Another nitty reg, views Hero as rock.

3 limps, Hero raises $20 AT OTB, BB 3bets to $40, action back on Hero who calls (?)

FLOP ($90): K J 2
V bets $45, Hero ??

Is preflop call a leak? Anything bigger than $40 I'm folding, and V seems to be taking advantage of that.

Pre is fine, call flop

I find raises like that are often like 88+, sometimes any PP.. I don't really know what they're thinking when they minraise OOP, but in my experience it's not always QQ+/AK.., So I don't mind pre, and wouldn't mind peeling one on this flop with equity if you think you can possibly get a read on V to determine if a turn bluff will be profitable (if he checks).

Played fine. I'm definitely calling c-bet, obviously we've got 3 outs for the nuts, plus back door and over card. Not to mention you're getting terrific odds.

Villians bet sizing does seem quite weak, too

Being IP, I'm probably calling flop. Not folding. Wouldn't hate a raise. The small bet(For this board) seems thin. I'd imagine you'd see a larger bet with Top Pair+ or a good draw.

Since when do we get in the business of paying off nits? If we were deeper I wouldn't mind calling pre because I think we could steal a lot of pots from this type of V.

But unless we flop a spade draw, what flops are we ever going to want to commit against a nit?

I think at best we have 3 outs here with our A, and a nit won't give us any money when an A flops and it beats his hand. Additionally, if we flop a spade draw, good luck having any FE after Mr. Overpair bets into us. And we're not going to flop a spade draw very often.

I like the raise over the limpers. But once this guy wakes up, don't give him any more money.

I'm cool with our preflop raise. After 3 limpers I might be sizing it more to attempt to get folds, but table dependent. I *snap* fold to the 3bet. Guy's a nit and he's 3betting a guy he views as a rock, and he's minraising (looking for action). This is AA+, not even sure if KK does this. Even though we're getting good 3:1 odds, that means nothing as we're simply never going to outflop him enough.

And a trivial fold on the flop. We need 10.5:1 to breakeven on a gutshot, which is another 7.7 bets * $45 = $337.50 (which we won't have behind), it's unlikely our A outs are any good, and even if we bink our gutshot the flush one might kill action.

Putting any money in past the initial raise is a massive leak in this spot, imo.

ETA: Yikes, how can anyone be on board with continuing preflop to the 3bet? Our reads have to be *way* off to continue to the 3bet, imo.

GcluelessNLnoobG

This is pretty much the perfect float spot...I'm happy with pre, call this bet and peel one, if villan barrels we can fold....he has a decent king, if he checks we can probably take it away with a bet....
We do all this with the nut draw and an over so even if we are called we have solid outs

Lol, why do I get the feeling this thread ends up with Hero somehow getting Villain to fold his AA face up in a SPR 3.5 pot?

Gamirite?G

Nah.
Obv hero calls, binks a Q, and stacks KK who complains about hero calling pre flop.

If limpers were shallow and/or are overly sticky pre/post then overlimping might work better. Granted I'm likely raising otb as well, but I'd be wary of making things too shallow against such players.

@iraisetoomuch - how can you fold pre when the hand is so easy to play post otb? Edit: oh fold to the 3b? But he sized it so poorly.

I've got no problem with overlimping either, and would snap overlimp with A9s, so whatever. But I'm tight enough to begin with, so if I'm going to convince the table I have more of raising range than KK+ I think I have to be raising these types of hands in LP.

GoptionsG

Am I the only one who believe's Villain preflop range is exactly and only AA?

QQ- flats a rock open.

KK raises more preflop to price out Ax (or perhaps even flats).

AA minraises to make sure he gets action.

GamImisreadingthereadshere?G

^OP describes both as regs, so has probably played with this villan relatively often, is it not fair to assume that there is a bit of a meta-game here were villan can be 3betting wider, especially if he looks at hero's play as a button squeeze.... is this the sort of play villan will have seen hero make? Is villan expecting to get a lot of folds to his 3bet and therefore could have some air in there.... When it's reg on reg I always feel like we should have more info on the history between the two.

I think you're *way* overcomplicating it.

Extremely snug rock raises. Nit min 3bets. Not much to see here, imo.

Even though his cards are face up on the table, I still don't like the preflop call cuz I just don't think we're ever going to flop well enough to use this to our advantage.

GimoG

How in the world are people suggesting to fold pre to the min 3bet?

We are getting 3.5:1 to call in position so we only need to have 22% equity. Even against an insanely tight range we have enough equity.

ProPokerTools Hold'em Simulation

15,410,736 trials (Exhaustive)

Hand	Pot equity	Wins	Ties
AsTs	26.16%	3,978,654	105,090
AA,KK	73.84%	11,326,992	105,090

Those equities are only useful if we're calling an all-in, but we're not.

How much are we going to lose on a A/T high flop postflop if behind? And the only time he loses that much to us is on TT/KQJ flops (the latter which sometimes gives him redraws).

GcluelessNLnoobG

Equity has little to do with it. We don't get to see all 5 cards to realize our equity against a strong range without calling additional bets, and we are also not deep enough to exploit villain's range being narrow.

Min-3-bets are huge strength IME. Probably KK+ from this player.

I would lol-fold pre, and fold flop.

You don't get to see all 5 cards but you get IO on a faceup hand when the first 3 come out in your favor.

Raise pre but larger, as played call pre fold any flop where you can't beat AA.

Only flops that could come where we stack V is a flop with two tens or KQJ (with KQJ being no gurantee stackoff if our opponent holds AA).

Okay, so going ahead in the hand with the results...

FLOP ($90): K J 2
V bets $45, Hero calls

TURN ($180): 5
V checks, Hero checks <<<<<<<<<< does anyone like a stab here?

RIVER ($180): K
V bets $100, Hero folds

V shows KK for quads (lol)


Does anyone think the min3b preflop is not a sucker but an information 3b to find out if snug Hero has AA or not?

How good/bad did V and Hero individually play their hands?

You played it fine. I could see betting the turn to try and get him off QQ but taking a free card is fine too.

Villain played it terrible with the min 3bet. He should also be going for 3 streets of value on this wet board.

Looks like my read on Villain is way off cuz I don't have him that wide preflop. Lolz.

Tough to say who played it worse preflop. I'm fine with our preflop raise but hate our call. But I hate his min 3bet which gives us setmining odds of 19:1 and within an SPR pot of 3.4 (where he'll have to stack off postflop on every board not containing an A). It's close, but I think he played it worse.

SPR of 3.5 and a drawy board, he should be attempting to get stacks in just 2 streets, imo. So I'm not a fan of his 1/2 PSB, especially since Hero is never folding AK/KQ to one bet on the flop (but might fold on later streets), so get max value now. But I also can't stand our call. Again, it's close, but I think we played the flop worse.

Turn we are an easy winner, and it's not close. Lol at him for checking a drawy board when he's committed. Nice check back by us, the only hand that is considering a fold is QQ and even that might continue.

River I like our fold. Not sure what I think of his river play. If we're aggro in any way and stabby, I might prefer a check (good chance we're on a busted draw and can attempt to rep the K). Then again, it's also possible we have a showdownable hand like a pair and can't wait to check it down, in which case I think I just prefer a shove.

Really hate early streets by both players, but overall I think you played it slightly better due to later streets.

GcluelessjudgingnoobG