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02-28-2014 , 12:44 PM
Evaluate this play 1/2nl
Hero's image at that point was aggro.
pre flop 5 limps to the Button HERO, HERO RAISES to 13 AJo , BB calls, cuttoff weak player calls. $43 pot flop comes A68r BB tight image leads for $30 Cutoff calls for $30 Pot $103 HERO raises $125- pot $228 Based off playing with bb ha been Super nitty and wouldn't call without 2pair+ with him in the bb it was hard to have him on a A8 A6 range. BB FOLDS. The only one I'm afraid of is the cutoff he hesitantly calls POT $323 turn is a 5
cutoff checks HERO motions to shove $825 into his $310 and cutoff prematurely moves chips in
HERO checks the turn cut off shoves the river 7 HERO folds.. I had every intention of throwing a double barrel till he confidently moved his chips in before mine touch the line...



Cutoff showed
57 for two pair with open ended






Been playing on and off for years finally devoted a few weeks of play.
I play tight aggro. My biggest issue still remains the math. I understand pot odds and ev but how about hand odds if im at 8 outs on the turn bringing me to 16% what are good odds to call 4:1/5:1? Im lost.




Any way my stats after 7 sessions logged are.

80 hours logged.
Win/Lost
66.67%/33.33%
hourly $25
bb won-1000
bb loss-625
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02-28-2014 , 01:19 PM
Don't angle people bruh
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02-28-2014 , 01:22 PM
I find your layout hard to follow and somehow end up seeing results as I scan down. Kinda refusing to read this
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02-28-2014 , 01:43 PM
Grunch...

I don't think math is your biggest problem. You should also work on formatting your posts a bit better. effective stacks in this hand are ~$500? Also, don't post the results in the original post.

Okay, so 5 players limper to you OTB and you made it $13? You should probably raise bigger unless you don't mind going to the flop 6 ways. And even if you don't mind gonig to the flop six ways, you should raise bigger, $18-$20ish IMO. AJo doesn't exactly play super well multi-way.

Come flop, you make TPGK on a very dry board and a nit leads into you and gets called. TBH, I'm not super excited about my hand at this point, but I think a call is in order. There are very few draws, and you have position. You state that Villain is a nit and will only call with two pair or better (he probably calls with AK and some times AQ also), and the you raise with AJ. Do you see why this is bad? Villain will be able to play near perfect against your raise. He will fold everything that is worse, and call with everything that is better. Do you have a specific reason why you raised the flop? It also may be worth adding that the BB is probably the most likely position for the nit to show up with A6 or A8, even 86.

Come turn, you have built a rather large pot with a mediocre hand. In general, when a player checks to you and the motions/grabs their chips when you are about to bet, this means that they DO NOT want you to bet. Although I will say that normally its with the intention of folding or making a "I'm not happy about this call" when you actually do bet. By putting his chips over the line, he is actually forced to call off his stack if you actually do bet. I'm not actually sure what the best corse of action here is OTT.

But yeah, It looks like you have got a lot of things to work on besides math.

One thing is for sure though, after this hand, make sure you make a note that the 75 villain is a huge fish.
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02-28-2014 , 01:45 PM
Bigger pre: With 5 limpers I make it $20.

Flop raise is spew. You are not often good against a donk and a call with original raiser yet to act, and def are crushed by any range that calls the raise. You're turning your hand into a bluff when you have position and SDV. Call flop.

Check back turn, even before any angles. Are you really looking to get TPGK AI 225 BBs deep? Horribad.

AP, obvious river fold is obvious.

Don't give results.

Do post legible HHs.

If you can't figure POs and EV seperately, just figure your POs in percentages, so they match.

Last edited by Garick; 02-28-2014 at 01:59 PM. Reason: typo
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02-28-2014 , 01:55 PM
I don't like anything about this (including formatting).


Raise way more pf.
Call flop.
Don't angle shoot on the turn (although, I'll grant that it was his mistake).


As played, check back turn. When he calls on the flop, what hands do you think you beat? Also, when you attempted/pretended to shove, why were you turning your hand into a bluff (and what are you representing)?
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02-28-2014 , 02:03 PM
Garick and new professor save the thread
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02-28-2014 , 02:04 PM
grunch: make that 20 pre dude.... bomb their faces

I dont raise flop but once you do, I think we gotta ship this turn....esp since we got the original aggressor to fold and we are up against a limp/calling fish at 1/2, and we have a solid value hand against a wide range. Jamming turn here is high variance but optimal and mandatory once we raise the flop and it plays out like this IMO. This is part of the reason why we flat flop, to avoid guessing games for stacks with one pair. Just chill on the flop dude and then see what's up later.

Looks like he pretended to beat you into the pot, I once overheard a high stakes beast say that when they do that they're trying to get you to check because they want a free card 100% so that's another lesson you could learn from posting this hand.

cliffs: 1. more pre 2. flat flop 3. the defensive thing with the chips to try to get you to check is a marginal hand with a lot of outs that wants to manipulate you into giving a free card

Last edited by oh-nahhh; 02-28-2014 at 02:09 PM.
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02-28-2014 , 02:12 PM
Assuming you're a winning TAG player, good for you that you are experimenting with aggressiveness. It wil likely cost a bunch of money over the next several months. You can mitigate that loss with a good coach. By that I mean, you will make more money than you spend on coaching if you pay attention.

Don't get discouraged! Usually when you're really getting frustrated is when you're fixing to get a breakthrough.
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02-28-2014 , 05:38 PM
It's good to be aggressive, but be aggressive with hands like air, draws, and stronger made hands, not bluff catchers.

Raising AJ in a 3-way pot on a super dry board is not so good. AJ might even be a fold here given BB description.
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02-28-2014 , 05:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by bschr04
It's good to be aggressive, but be aggressive with hands like air, draws, and stronger made hands, not bluff catchers.

Raising AJ in a 3-way pot on a super dry board is not so good. AJ might even be a fold here given BB description.
agree with this.

Answer this question - "why are you raising"?
Hint: "because I think I have the best hand" is not an acceptable answer.
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02-28-2014 , 08:17 PM
PFR 13 with $13 dead already...As others said make your raise bigger if you are going to raise. I think with AJo this is a good place to loloverlimp.

As played I'm checking down because my PFR didn't really accomplish anything and I include a healthy amount of Arags in l/c ranges.

Edit: Especially given your image and recent history, I'm definitely overlimping. I'll wait to raise when I have a better hand since I know I'm not getting respect.
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02-28-2014 , 08:21 PM
Raise more pre to knock 5-7 out
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02-28-2014 , 08:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnyBuz
Raise more pre to knock 5-7 out
No no no.

This is a guy who will call any bet, of any size, any time, on any street, hoping for that 2-outer* on the river. Why on earth would be want him out of a hand?



_______

* I know.
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02-28-2014 , 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbqDave
No no no.

This is a guy who will call any bet, of any size, any time, on any street, hoping for that 2-outer* on the river. Why on earth would be want him out of a hand?
Raising to $13 with 5 limpers and the blinds still left to act is bad.

The post was sloppy so I didn't read everything but first and foremost he should be raising to more than $13. If the guy is bad he will call $22 just as well as $13 so more value for hero.

Raise to $22 pre >> limp AJo >> fold AJo >> raise to $13 pre
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02-28-2014 , 10:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Garick
Bigger pre: With 5 limpers I make it $20.

Flop raise is spew. You are not often good against a donk and a call with original raiser yet to act, and def are crushed by any range that calls the raise. You're turning your hand into a bluff when you have position and SDV. Call flop.

Check back turn, even before any angles. Are you really looking to get TPGK AI 225 BBs deep? Horribad.

AP, obvious river fold is obvious.

.
yeah i agree with all of this.
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